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In This Episode
Women are naturally self-aware and resilient. Any woman has the power to transform her thoughts, feelings, and reactions to different situations, especially when it comes to challenges and frustrations in marriage. Leora Mandel discusses that having a support group of women and a marriage coach can allow a married woman to see aggravations as opportunities.
Highlights
00:49 Leora Mandel is a marriage and family therapist. Similar to Rebbetzin Bat-Chen, Leora helps marriages be the best that they can be.
02:21 Having a support group of women outside the marriage can also be helpful in discovering and developing new versions of ourselves.
02:59 It only takes one person to change a relationship, such as that between a wife and her husband, and within the family.
05:03 It is a lot easier to blame someone else in a relationship, especially in marriage. It’s not about right and wrong, or who contributes more or less.
06:21 We create patterns that build into habits and routines. Sometimes, we aren’t aware of them but we end up getting frustrated when the dynamic between spouses is broken. However, you have the power to respond better and differently.
10:05 Mindset or how you think affects the outcome of a certain situation, which is how you feel, think, and react. A marriage advisor, such as Rebbetzin Bat-Chen, can help change the atmosphere.
16:02 When it comes to fixing your frustrations in marriage, there is always something to be learned or aware of, and you can level up your reactions to transform your marriage.
18:09 Rebbetzin Bat-Chen believes that a married woman can get help no matter what because Hashem put you in this world to do something greater than the situation you’re in.
21:09 A marriage coach can serve as a proper guide for a married woman to see her situation from a difference perspective.
21:45 What sets Connected for Real apart from other marriage coaches is that Rebbetzin Bat-Chen includes Hashem or God in helping married women.
24:16 There may be extreme cases where change is not possible in marriage, but finding a marriage coach to guide one to help change our focus will also allow transformation.
28:41 Changing the way one thinks about frustrations can be an opportunity. Leora Mandel shares an example that happened to her recently where she turned from seeing a situation from a frustration to opportunity.
32:16 Marriage coaches can provide the tools to help transform the marriage into something greater.
40:46 In any relationship, there are more positive things going on in that relationship than negative. Leora shares that it’s important to see the good in the people you have relationships with.
Links
5 Surprising Ways to Improve Your Marriage
Marriage Breakthrough Retreat
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REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Welcome to the Connected For Real Podcast! I’m Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business, and my mission is to bring God’s presence into your life, into your marriage, and into your business. Let’s get started. The following is one of the many conversations I had with experts and professionals about real life and how it affects marriage. Let me know your takeaways on Instagram or Facebook, @connectedforreal. Enjoy. And we are live with Leora Mandel, who is a marriage and family therapist. She’s also my neighbor and my friend so I am so glad to introduce you to Leora. Leora, tell us a little bit about yourself.
LEORA MANDEL
Hello everybody. Well, I would say my first claim to fame specifically in this context is being Bat-Chen’s friend, which is wonderful and you can only imagine that we have wonderful conversations because Bat-Chen is a marriage advisor, and I am trained as a marriage and family therapist. We both are very much committed to helping people’s marriages be the best that they can be. We always want to be able to even for ourselves be the best version of ourselves, have the best quality of life that we possibly can have, and so much of that is affected by the relationships that we have. Any ability to improve our relationships, even a good relationship, let alone a relationship that we feel we would really like to be better, is a wonderful opportunity and that’s what we both are very much committed to.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Yes, so fun. Leora has a class in her house most years, not corona year, but most years it’s been really fun to come together and have a real nice group of women learn together and discuss all these great adult conversations with their kids running around. I think that’s just a really wonderful thing if anybody here is home with kids or in that season of life, it is such a good idea because it brings you up a level to being with friends, eating nice cake, if you have Leora as a friend, and just being able to learn something, and not just feel you’re always just in action doing things–so activating your brain–I appreciate that about you, Leora.
LEORA MANDEL
It’s also connecting to women in a really deep way because we’re always learning about working on ourselves, which there’s always work to do. We’re human becomings. Hopefully we’re all in a very good place but even a wonderful person–there’s always more to work on because we aren’t living in a bubble. So much of what we’re working on is improving ourselves within the context of our relationship with other people, and so it’s really helpful when you have almost like a support group of other women who are committed to wanting to grow, be better, and work on ourselves in a positive way–trying to again develop new versions of ourselves, better versions of ourselves, more refined versions of ourselves, and that really is really wonderful. Now one thing that, Bat-Chen, we’d like to talk about today is the power of one person to change a relationship because I think especially when marriage, for example, there’s two people in a marriage. Now there’s also a family there’s so many outside factors that definitely can sometimes come into play in this relationship, but I think oftentimes you think, “Well, if I’m just working on myself then it’s all up to me.” If I don’t like who I am right now, there’s “I want to work on being more patient, more giving, or–” There’s so many traits that are all attempting to improve upon. Well, that depends on me but when there’s someone else in the relationship, and it seems as though they’re actually, maybe, the reason why I’m not as happy in this relationship, then it can feel frustrating to think, “Well, if they’re not going to change then how is this relationship going to get me better?”
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
I love there was one time I went to a class and Shlomit Aqua, she brought a ribbon and she tied it, and then she said, “Do you think I can undo the ribbon just by moving one hand?” and everybody was like, “No, you need both hands to untie it,” and she basically went like this and around and whatever, and it came out the other way. She didn’t move the other hand at all and she was illustrating in such a nice way that if you just do your part, you can unravel the entire thing and everybody wins. It’s like, “Why should I do all the work?” Well, because everybody wins and sometimes when people come to me and say, “Why is it that always I have to be the good one? I have to be the adult so I have to be the one to hold my tongue–” or whatever. I say, “Are you questioning–maybe you’re the one who stopped it or made it–added to the problem?” Sometimes we just think, “Oh, I’m the good one. I’m here to fix everything,” but a lot of times when we go deeper, we see that you’re the one who’s sort of creating the distance in a lot of cases. I question that thought. Yeah—
LEORA MANDEL
But even if one will say “What? It’s not me. It’s the other person. What can I do to change that?”
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Oh, it’s the other person. I’ll tell you why. It’s always the other person the other person. Why would you take responsibility if you don’t have to? It’s so convenient and comfortable to say it’s their fault and just leave it at that. It’s comfort zone.
LEORA MANDEL
It is. Now, again, relationships–there’s a dynamic so it’s not one person. Everyone’s contributing to the situation, and it is true that you are not the only one contributing. So when you say, “Why should I take responsibility? The other person’s not,” there is contribution and maybe a contribution that is feeding some of the challenges coming from the other side but if I’m only going to focus on the other person and what they’re contributing, even if it feels like it’s the challenge or the problem, nothing’s going to change. So it’s not about right and wrong. It’s about if I want the situation to change, to improve to become better, I can’t change someone else. This is now where we go to, “What can I do to possibly make a change?” Two things–Bat-Chen, I know there’s something you do, and there’s so many ideas on this but we don’t want to overwhelm everybody. There are two points that I thought were really key points that are worth putting out there–food for thought and in both of these points, are something that if it rings, a light bulb goes off and be like, “What? It does make sense.” Sometimes it’s not something we can necessarily work out on our own. Sometimes that’s where Bat-Chen, as a marriage advisor or a marriage counselor, would come in to help with it. The first point I do want to bring out is that we all get into a certain dynamic. We have certain patterns, and we tend to get into repetitive patterns of dealing with the situation responding to a situation having certain routines and sometimes this works well for us. Sometimes it works very well, and when it works well, we’re happy. It feels good.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
I call it the loop. Where is that loop that you go you loop around and around. We have good loops and bad loops.
LEORA MANDEL
That’s true but as human beings we tend to get into certain patterns, again routines. There’s a certain dynamic that we create, and sometimes we are aware of it sometimes like, “Oh I know the dynamic. I can explain it I can show it to you,” and sometimes we’re not aware of it, which again, is where maybe someone helping you see after pulling out the threads and saying, “Ah it seems like this is a pattern.” Oftentimes you’re not always aware of it but we do get into these patterns and these dynamics, and when it isn’t pleasant, it’s not comfortable, and it’s not working well, this–I think it’s saying goes “If you do what you always did, you’ll get what you always got.” Even though we’re upset–“Why is this situation so frustrating?” Well, we don’t always realize or maybe we do, that we keep on repeating a simpler pattern. It’s no surprise that we’re frustrated each time or I think there’s also a line of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting results, but we were these things we do and again sometimes we sort of are aware of it but not necessarily when we’re doing it. Sometimes we’re not even aware of what is this pattern but frustration, the end result, being frustrated, we often are very familiar with. So how can one person change a situation since we all get into these patterns? We’re changing what may be they’ve always done, how they’ve always responded, the way they always reacted, or said–again you find a place within the pattern of making a change and then the other person–I can’t change another person but realistically, another person will respond differently. It’s like a dance where there’s certain moves and someone’s almost expecting me to go in a certain–that’s the next move you always make and then I make a different move, they have to respond differently.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Right, and sometimes something that is really important to remember I think is that it’s not about what you do as much as what you think and what you believe. I work a lot on mindset and the beliefs that we have and the thoughts that are creating our feelings because it’s easier to then act differently or react differently when the entire process goes it’s like belief creates thought, thought creates emotion, emotion creates action. So if I want a change in action or reaction, it’s going to take a lot out of me to hold that feeling in, bottle it in, really suppress it, and push it down but it’s going to be a lot easier and a lot more natural. That’s where the real work is. If I could change the place where it started, the belief, and then think differently, then feel–you almost neutralize the emotion by changing the thoughts, the feeling, and the beliefs behind them. That’s something that I really am very excited about when I do work with my clients is we can change the loop from a healthy place, from a comfortable place, from a place where it feels good and not from a place of, “Hold your tongue. Don’t say anything. Hold your feelings back. Just let it happen,” because then you end up feeling like a rag on the floor, and it’s like everybody’s stepping all over you and you’re holding yourself back for the sake of peace that’s not going to last very long. It’s not going to work–
LEORA MANDEL
That actually was going to be my second important point is exactly this point is the way we think about a situation affects how we feel and will affect the way we respond, and this is the power one person to change the situation because if I can recognize well I’m frustrated, what am I thinking about the situation that’s creating this frustration, this feeling, because thoughts create feelings–so if I have a feeling I have to think, “What is the thought?” and then when I get in touch with that thought, I think, “Okay, I s there a way I can think about this situation differently that might help me feel differently and then I’ll respond differently?” which will then change the whole atmosphere of my relationship. Again, this is where a marriage advisor can help with this because this isn’t always something we can do on our own we’re so stuck in our own thinking process. It’s very circular inside of us. Sometimes we need someone to help us pull out but let me just throw out an example. Again, there’s so many kinds of examples. A woman has a husband who works a lot, he’s not home much, and she’s frustrated because she feels alone and she feels like raising the kids is all on her. The kids aren’t seeing him much and it frustrates her a lot. This is a real source of contention. Well, I think it’s understandable the way she feels but why is she feeling the way she feels? Because she feels like he’s not home, he’s just so focused on his job, on climbing the ladder, and making more money. Therefore, and as opposed to prioritizing wanting to spend time with the family, being there for us–what about me? These are legitimate thoughts, but those thoughts create feelings of frustration, feeling alone, disappointment, and then what does that create? An atmosphere tension in the home that affects her, affects him, affects the relationship, and the kids—
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
And the money—
LEORA MANDEL
This is a process, and this is, again, oftentimes one would need help to work this out but let’s just imagine that a person could take a pill. Now, there isn’t such a thing, so you might need Bat-Chen to help you with this, but if you could take the magic pill that helps you change that thought. The next morning you wake up and instead of thinking, “Oh, there he is again. He’s not gonna be home tonight. He called again to say he’s gonna be late, missing dinner again,” and instead it’s like, “What? Wait a minute. He’s working hard, and because he’s working hard, I’m able to actually spend more time at home with the kids. I only have a part-time job because he’s working so hard. He’s bringing more of the finances so that I can be home with the kids and everything, but then he’s working so hard. Yeah, I wish he could be with us for dinner but he’s funding all the extra tutoring for our children, bar mitzvah lessons for our son–we can make a really nice Shabbat Table because thank God, we’re not struggling financially the way we used to.” All of a sudden, I’m thinking about that, and then I never think about what it must be like for him. These are long hours. How would I want to feel when I came home at the end of a really long day? Would I want my wife complaining or my husband claiming, “How come you’re not home? You’re never here. You’re just working too much or what–” I want to feel like, “Wow, you work really hard to put a lot of hours into making us have this beautiful home so I can be home with the kids, so we have plenty of food, and I don’t have to worry about the checks bouncing.” Appreciation–all of a sudden this change of mindset. Now what happens? It’s a miracle. He comes home, and he’s actually really surprised his wife says, “Come.” She has some tea and some cake, she has dinner waiting for him–“Let me hear about your day. I don’t know if I told you how much I appreciate–I know you work really, really hard for us, and how much it means to me—” It’s what might likely happen Now, we don’t know for sure, it could be he’ll start actually coming home more because the atmosphere is much more pleasant to come home to–could be part of the situation was yes, he was working more to try to make ends meet, he was very busy at work, he is taking on a bit more than maybe he should, but part of it also was but when you come home, who wants to come home to an unpleasant atmosphere? It could also be with empathy all of a sudden. Again, my response is changing because the way I’m thinking about the situation will now change the way I feel about him, about the situation, and also the whole atmosphere in our home. So there’s so many ways that this is not a one thing fits all. This is how you have to change the way you think about it. Sometimes there’s other ways a person can change the way they think about something but it’s just a generic but real kind of example of how depending on how you think about something will affect how you feel, will affect how you respond, and can totally change the dynamics of the relationship.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Yes, yes, and what’s amazing women want to fix their husbands. They’re willing to do anything if you just promise them that their husband will be fixed at the end of this process, but you can’t fix other people. Once, as I was starting my business a long time ago, I had this great idea I was going to do this 90 minute session called Fix Your Husband in 90 minutes and people were like, “What?” but the concept really worked. I mean the people who did do it were blown away because if you just change the way that you’re believing and thinking about the whole situation, a lot of times you let your husband off the hook from being the bad guy because there isn’t a win-lose. We hope it would be a win-win situation, and marriage is ideally win-win but when you blame, put him down, and make him the bad guy you automatically are in a win-lose and that’s just going to not last and be very frustrating. So just one session at a time–now I’m doing six months, which really changes it, because even though we’re really delving in at each session and turning something around when you address one thing and then the next thing and then the next thing and then the next thing. You turn around and you don’t recognize what used to be—like, “I can’t believe that’s where we were and that’s where we are now,” and most women their issue of not doing it is because they don’t believe it’s possible.
LEORA MANDEL
I was just thinking about exactly this point that so many people could be so much happier and change is possible but exactly your point is people are like, “Well, since he’s the problem” or, “There’s this such deep-rooted problems in the dynamics that there’s no hope,” and when I think there’s no problem—
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
The “I’ve tried everything, and so apparently that’s it. It’s over,” I love those people. Those are the ones I love helping the most. If you tried everything, call me because it really isn’t the end. It’s not like, “Okay, I tried everything, and it’s over—whatever.” No. Every time you try something, maybe you learn something, maybe you become more aware of something, maybe you didn’t fix the whole problem, but you went up a level, you got a little bit closer to understanding something, then when you do the deep, deep work, you’re able to do it in a much more mature way as opposed to if you’re just coming for the first time and be like, “Okay, come on. Show me how to do what–how do I do to fix the–” You’re coming from a very grounded place of like, “Okay, I’m ready to really commit. I’m ready to really hear what I need to do,” and that’s an amazing place people who come in saying I’ve already tried everything and this is my last straw are going to be really into it–committed and they’re going to get the biggest transformations.
LEORA MANDEL
There are many more people that think that there is no hope for the relationship then is really true. Are there exceptions? Yes, unfortunately. There definitely are exceptions and it is important to put out there and everyone’s case with the exceptions. Everyone’s case is individual but if someone is in a relationship– a situation–a person has a spouse that has untreated addiction and doesn’t seem open to treating their addiction, and repeated infidelity. These are general situations. There are exceptions but there are a few categories of situations and obviously there’s many situations that could be not in those that can also be possibly not everything is fixable things can still be improved so here it is important to understand there are certain situations but I think most people there’s so many women that are not in these specific situations that would say, “Oh, there’s no hope,” and really, there really is a lot that can be done.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Okay, so I agree with everything you said that these things are really red lines and should be treated as such. I also want to add that if a woman is in a marriage then she can get help no matter what. It’s not like, “Okay, that’s it. I’m in this issue, and that’s the end of it. There’s nothing to do.” No. There is always something to do. As long as you’re alive, you can change the situation you’re in. You can transform your life into something way more awesome and greater and more fulfilling because Hashem put you in this world to do something, not to sit around and be like we said a rug. You are here for a reason. Hashem put you here because you need to–He needs you here. There is no mistake, so that’s even a better reason why you should get help, why you should get yourself in a place where you are treating yourself properly, your self-worth is high, where your self-confidence is high, where you’re actually leaning into your gifts because we lose out when you don’t lean into yourself. I think it’s really important that you brought that up if somebody is in a situation where they’re in an abusive relationship or where their husband is constantly doing the wrong thing, and they still welcome them into the house as if it’s their job or duty to bend over backwards, and like Cathy Heller says, “Put yourself on fire for other people to keep warm.” It’s not like that. This is not the way that Hashem meant the world to be, and so this is part of your test of standing up, finding your voice, standing up for yourself, finding what works for you–the truth is, sometimes just by leaning into that, you can change his behavior because of the loop. If you can’t change his behavior, that’s fine too. You’re still working on yourself. You’re still doing what you need to be doing so re-gathering your energies and putting them on what really you can control–the only thing you can control–will eventually change the world either way. Whatever happens, happens because you can’t control what else happens. You also can’t control what happens when you start doing these things. From my experience the second you start self-caring, and really leaning into your own strengths, the doors start to open, things start to happen, and everything just sort of starts flourishing in front of you. You’re like, “What?” It will surprise you too but you have to start doing it. You have to take the first step and take the nap you needed or whatever it is, take the time for yourself to reground, regroup take a walk, whatever it is that is for you the basic self-care and in all the situations that you mentioned that is one thing that I feel very passionate about helping those women because they have so much to give. They are here for such a much bigger reason than we think–than they think.
LEORA MANDEL
A proper guide is important because when we’re talking about even “Change the way I think, change the way I feel will change the way I respond, will change the atmosphere.” There’s tremendous truth to that but you also have to use it the right way. It can be used the wrong way because for example, in an abusive relationship, she said, “Oh, well if I just change the way I think about myself or what’s happening, and I change what I say to him–” and realize, “No.” That can be going in the wrong direction of continuing to allow yourself to be used poorly and crossing red lines. It’s important these tools are used with help so that you can be used in a healthy way to help guide you out of where you are, but to the better place that you want to be.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Yeah, and I think that’s one of the reasons why I love that I’m not just–it’s there’s a lot of marriage advisors, coaches, and whatever relationship coaches–I add on to that Hashem and the Jewish way of what the whole perspective–Hashem is a lens to basically really know because then you’re grounded. Hashem’s my rock so I’m not moving. I’m not going anywhere so I know exactly what I need to be doing so I have very clear directions and I can’t get lost when I’m connected. That’s why it’s called Connected for Real. If you’re connected for real in a practical level, where you bring Hashem into every little thing, you’re not going to fall into those things where it’s like, “Oh, I guess Hashem just wants me to just be sitting here being the victim.” It’s actually not true. Hashem does not want that. Hashem wants you to learn to get out of the comfort zone, to get over your fear, and to really shine. He wants you to shine and we’re talking about extreme cases, but thank God most people are sitting here saying, “Okay, that’s very nice.” The point is that in an extreme case, that’s where you see the test of what your tools and your outlook–but in regular situations when a woman is just feeling like her husband’s holding her back from success, or he doesn’t want her to go out and be more successful than she already is, because he fears that maybe it will affect his marriage. Those are regular normal situations that we deal with every day, and those two are bring yourself back to what you can control, and how you can lean into the gifts that Hashem gave you and accept that you can’t change reality.
LEORA MANDEL
That’s true, and you can’t change someone else even though I’m changing myself. Often someone responds differently to me but something that I hear, especially we’re talking about again, there’s so many situations where the marriage could be so much better and so much improved but people just get frustrated, hopeless, and think, “But there’s no way this could get better. Why should I even bother trying to get help? So what’s the point of just one person–” I mean there’s so many situations where it frustrates me because you think people could have better marriages. There’s so many people–the category of people who their marriage could be so much better, happier, and really wonderful but we don’t always–we’re hopeless as opposed to recognizing there’s a hope. Something that I hear a lot is situations where someone will say, “Well, the situation is never going to change. It’s never going to change. He’s never going to change in this area.” There is such a thing called gridlock issues, issues where you might be right that this may never change. The question is even recognizing it may never change. What we end up doing with situations that may never change is it starts taking over and that’s all we see. This happens with our kids too, by the way as a family therapist a lot of times when people do come in with their children, when there’s a challenge and a problem, all the parent keeps saying is, “The problem–the problem–the problem–the challenge–the challenge,” and one of the three steps that we do, and this applies to marriage too, it goes both ways–is I really have to help guide the parent to start seeing exceptions to the problem. What are other strengths the child has, what are the good qualities of your child–because when something frustrates us, again, all of a sudden, it’s all that we see. I’m not saying it might not be a big issue but sometimes it doesn’t have to be a big issue but we make it one. But it’s like, “I can’t see much of my hands–this is all I’m looking at.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
You reminded me of Lilach, my sister–is an audiologist and she has a podcast called All About Audiology, and one of the cool things she has is a guided meditation. It’s seeing your child for who he is. Being that she helps families of children with hearing loss, all they see is the hearing loss. They just see this kid, and either he’s deaf or he has hearing loss, and all they see is this problem. They just don’t see the kid and this beautiful meditation of just see him for being a kid for who he is, for all the beautiful things that he’s doing, because the second you get a diagnosis, it’s over. It’s really important to be able to look at those things. You just reminded me of that, and such an important point.
LEORA MANDEL
Something I can do–the person may never change this aspect of our relationship or this character trait or whatever it may never change meaning there are times where, yes, I change the way I respond, and things start to change. I change the way I think which change the way I respond. Things change but there are times where I can do all that and there just may be something that will not change but at the same time as we’re saying, is we tend to just focus so much on that thing instead of what I can do–is pull back and say, “This bothers me.” The more I think about it, the bigger it grows, and then I’m not happy relationship because it takes over as opposed to recognizing right this thing bothers me but let’s put it in its place it takes up a certain amount of space but there’s all this other space now if I can put in its place that can be filled up with positive good things, I will be a much happier person, a happier wife, a happier mother in whatever relationship I’m working on. If I can make this thing–my hands a lot smaller and then all the space it was taking up very conscientiously filled with focusing on other things that would bring joy and happiness that are positive and good.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Yes. I know you like my quotes. I remember there’s one quote that says, “What you water grows,” and where your energy and where you pay attention that’s going to grow. The more you water what’s going wrong and what’s not okay, that’s all you’re going to see and the same is true for the good things. When you start being grateful and you make lists of the things that are actually there that are good, or maybe they’re just neutral, suddenly you start seeing more and more of that and that’s how we grow our muscle of seeing good in people. The other thing is we were talking before about thoughts, and I want to just remind everyone you can think on purpose. You don’t have to buy everything your brain is telling you just because that’s what came up. thoughts will just come and go. It’s like we think–I don’t know how many millions of thoughts a day. They’re gonna come. They’re gonna go. They’re going to go through, and some of them are going to stick. They’re going to try holding hard, and they’re going to try and show you why you should believe them because they’re here, but you don’t have to. You can choose to think thoughts on purpose, and really create thoughts. Start the day by saying what you want to think by creating an intention. In yoga she does this and it’s really fun it’s just like, “Today, I want to feel grounded,” and then the whole day you’re walking around, feeling the ground, and re-centering yourself. It really makes a difference when you think on purpose so that was a point I wanted to throw out there for all those of you who love practicality because I’m very practical.
LEORA MANDEL
I don’t think this is something I’ve been working on myself and a lot of things we work within ourselves really affect our relationships too. It’s true. In the past if I’d be in a frustrating situation, I’d be just feeling annoyed, aggravated, and then of course you come home with it, affects your day whether you realize it or not, we’re a bit shorter with our kids or with our spouse because we’re just carrying this aggravation with us. Why something frustrated? It feels like there was no point. There’s no point–no point. This is actually something I learned from Rabbi David Aaron, and this is connected for real too–with God is that if we recognize that Hashem is sending us what it is that we’re going through. As an example, I needed a referral from my doctor and I waited almost an hour. It was a pediatrician for one of my kids, and then finally when I came in, I didn’t have something that I needed. I had no idea I needed it and so I was gonna have to come back and I was frustrated because I was annoyed and not with her. It was just a frustrating situation, and of course, these are the kinds of day-to-day things that can carry on. I felt like I wasted my time but Rabbi Aaron had said he said, “See. Sometimes we think we keep going for one thing.” I thought I was going for the referral but God had other plans. That gave me an opportunity to work on my patience that day, and that might have been more worthwhile–that opportunity to work on patience might have been more worth it and more to my benefit than had I had to wait almost an hour–had I gotten the referral right away. Meaning, these situations come up but instead of just seeing it as a frustration and aggravation, changing the way I think is saying these very frustrations are actually opportunities because again I can say, “Oh, I feel great about myself. I’m so patient today.” I say that but then what happened today–nothing tested my patience how much does that mean? But if I say, “Oh I feel great about myself. I had such patience,” and actually this happened to me yesterday. I did feel good but I was tested, and in fact it was a silly thing. I was at the supermarket, and there were only a few checkouts. There were really long lines and there were three people in front of me, and then a certain point with three people behind me but then it happened to be in the slow line, of course. Then two more registers opened up so the people who came in behind me got out 15 minutes before I got out because I got stuck. I was frustrated but then it also hit me–I was like, “Wait a minute. Connected for real. Bring Hashem into the picture. Hashem, this is my opportunity to work on patience,” and it was amazing how just changing the situation of bringing Hashem into it, recognizing instead of just frustration, pointless, wasting my time–wait, opportunity to work on patience. I came home. I told my kids. I said, “Guess what. Mommy had an opportunity to work on patience today.”
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Isn’t that beautiful? One thing that I really like about you is how you show your kids the real cards. Your kids know that life is life, and that, “Today, I had a hard day” or, “Today, I had this thing–” or whatever, and you telling them what’s going through your head and how at first, “I was upset and I was annoyed,” and now I suddenly thought about it, it clicked, and then I decided, “I’m going to work on patience, and then everything went so smoothly and I felt like I was in a flow.” Your kids are seeing this and they can really feel okay. A lot of times, what happens is we think of our parents as these perfect beings, and when we start living real life, things don’t go the way we want, and things aren’t as perfect for us then we get really discouraged. We think something is wrong. We think that we’re broken–that something isn’t right with us but really, it’s just life. It’s a muscle that we have to grow so I think that’s really important. I love that you do that. I love that you’re able to model–that’s the word I was looking for. You’re able to model for your kids the entire process that’s going inside.
LEORA MANDEL
Well, the tools for life is very much what I’m about from a parenting perspective too, with the family therapy side of things because I feel like the more tools we can give our children, then the better they’re already more equipped to deal with life as they–again, age appropriate, but as they get to certain points and as we all know, sometimes we try to cushion our children. We want to protect them but in the end, sometimes what we’re trying to do to protect actually harms because there is going to be frustration in life and being able to handle and deal with it effectively, not being destroyed by it is really important for life. One thing I want to emphasize again, and I know Bat-Chen, you’re doing amazing work with women, is that I hope some of the tools and the points we’re sharing here really like send a light bulb off again for any woman that might have felt frustrated or feel like, “Maybe there’s no hope,” “Why should I bother trying to get help?” or, “I’m not one who has time to get help,” but on the other hand, to recognize that marriage is such a foundation, such an essential aspect of your personal life, your family’s life, It’s, oftentimes, just reaching out for help. Again, reaching out for help, thinking all the difference, there’s so many tools out there but a lot of times we cannot do is ourselves because we’re so stuck in a situation. It’s like, again, “If I’m like this, I can’t see beyond it, and sometimes I need someone else to help hear me and pull me out of my own circular thinking and thought process. I don’t even see again. I can feel like there’s no hope. I apologize I don’t see. I’m so focused on the problem I can’t recognize there’ll be solutions out there, and sometimes someone else who can try to hear me out and then help me see actually there are some solutions.”
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
I think also–I mean, I hired a coach too. I think that coaching in general is just a really good way to move forward systematically and not every time you hit a stone you don’t know what to do next and then it just paralyzes you. I know that that’s how it is with me. I really like that somebody else has tools that I don’t have because then I could learn new things, I can grow, and I can constantly continue. It sort of is something that’s very built into the system that I know I’m going to have somebody to ask. I know I’m going to have a time when I’m going to talk about this, get it to the next level, go up a level and up a level. I’m not stuck because when I’m stuck, just in general, I paralyze and I’m like, “Okay, let’s say it’s over. I don’t know what else to do. Ah!” and I have to go through this like, “Ah!” for a while until I could get myself out of it and use the tools that I help other people use to help myself. That’s why I have a journal and I do a lot of self-help, but I find that having another person is so important because first of all it’s fun. It’s fun to have a conversation with a real human being, getting their input, and that’s something that my father always said about marriage is that the husband and the wife they could be standing across from each other and if there’s a ball in the middle. One sees one side and the other sees the other side. By communicating, they’re going to be able to really see both sides, but only if they can communicate properly what they see and be curious enough to hear what the other person sees. It’s the same thing where you have two people working on a situation. It just unravels in such a calm and easy way as opposed to you having to crack it open by yourself with the tools you have just because you’re lacking that specific key or whatever tool to unlock it.
LEORA MANDEL
It’s interesting because, especially in society, there’s such an emphasis on education, which is a very good thing. I’m not saying that it’s not but I think there’s not enough emphasis on educating ourselves, and I think if a person’s gonna become a teacher, pharmacist–I mean there’s certain things the more complex ,the more schooling you have to go through, the more classes you have to take, and then there’s one thing to learn it in theory. Like a doctor–my brother was a doctor, and he said he finished his schooling but he felt like he didn’t trust himself at all to be a doctor. Now he’s doing his internship because there’s a difference between the theory, and there’s a difference between practically seeing what it is you theoretically learned about but it never ends because if you want to be a good doctor, you’re always learning. You’re always working. There’s always more to learn, and I think marriage is very similar to parenting both in those categories of–it is so important, I think more important than whatever education we get for our career as much as there’s this emphasis in society about your career is what’s going to make you happy. Reality is, it’s actually meaningful relationships and the most meaningful relationships are the ones you have with your spouse, with your children, with your parents–family relationships. So the more we can do to get the tools, and then all practically how to apply them in our personal lives so that we can have happier, more balanced relationships–the happier, the more fulfilled, and the more productive we’ll be. It actually does carry out, I think also in a career too, but I think we have it backwards that really the focus is on making–but it takes a commitment to say what that’s why I like your six month idea because it takes commitment to say, “I really want to work on this. I really want to make the changes. I’m going to commit.” It is hard work.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Sometimes we think that it’s going to be hard work and really all it is is just strategy just knowing that you have to take a right and then a left and then walk straight and continue. You just don’t know because you have no idea so you think you’re gonna have to trudge the whole hill but really there’s a shortcut or there’s a different road that is easier to take and those are things you’re just not aware of. That’s why I love that I have a coach, and my coach has a coach, and everybody needs somebody to show them the way to help them through this stuff because I’m not only helping one person. I’m helping many people, and so I see patterns, I see what works, and I see how certain things are just really much easier in the big scheme of things from the bird’s eye view.
LEORA MANDEL
Sometimes, it is easier when I just focus on myself because I think the long road can be well but I think we can recognize this is part of human nature. Everyone’s blaming somebody else for what the problems are but sometimes I think the shortcut can be saying, “You know what? We don’t see ourselves because there’s a natural human nature. We’re focused on someone else because we can see them. This is again why I think a coach, an advisor can be helpful to help come out of me and help guide me but it’s very much easier to see someone else where they may be that creating certain dynamics that are creating challenges in the relationship because they’re outside of me. The coach can come in to help us see where is maybe one little strategy change can make all the difference another practical possible example talking about dynamics–let’s say your husband’s supposed to be the one to take care of the finances, and he does the job when he gets to it but he often doesn’t get to it. Sometimes things have been late payments, and it gets you very frustrated. It’s not your strength and you are always reminding him to take care of the bills. Not pleasant. “You just do it already. Why does he have to procrastinate?” and then you speak to Bat-Chen, and she helps you come up, “Okay, this is our pattern.” “I remind him. I nag him then eventually it gets done but it’s unpleasant–” There’s more details to patterns but let’s just leave it at that. Then you think, “Wait a minute. Okay, he doesn’t get it done. He always says, ‘I don’t have time. I don’t have time. I don’t have time.’” Well, he doesn’t really have time. Stop nagging him. Nagging’s not going to give him more time, so let me give him more time. You say, “Honey, guess what. I’m going to take Chaim to his Bar-Mitzvah lesson today. I know you should do that, and I appreciate it. I’m going to take all the kids out of the house, and that way you can have an hour and a half–quiet that usually you’d be out taking them. Just remember it’s the lessons so that the bills can get done, and you’ll feel good that it’s done. I’ll feel great that it’s done. I so appreciate it, and then I’m going to stop at the bakery on the way home to get something though that tonight we’ll have tea and cake and we can really celebrate that now it’s done for the month.” All of a sudden instead of the, “What are you going to do? What are you going to do? He’s always procrastinating. He’s never getting it done. Why him, him, him?” It’s like, “Well, what can I do? Maybe this is what I always do. How can I change what I’ve always done?” Maybe there’ll be a different result. Now, you may think this is brilliant. “Wow I gotta try this. This will work,” and maybe you’ll say, “This would never work for me.” This is where a marriage advisor comes in because each person’s situation is different, but the principle is the same of trying something different, getting out of that pattern that is always doing the same thing getting the same results and being frustrating. Finding a different way to approach it, where again sometimes we don’t see–so we don’t see it and someone else to help us see–“Well, this is how you’ve always done it. No wonder you’re always frustrated. Let’s see if something else might work,” and then you have happy people.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
And Leora I want you to end on a very practical note something that everybody could do today tomorrow to improve their marriage in just any little way.
LEORA MANDEL
Okay, the practical note is that any relationship we’re happy in–it’s because there’s more positive things going on in that relationship than negative. Even a happy relationship–I have a great friend sometimes she runs a bit late and it annoys me, but she’s a great person. We get along. If I focus on what annoys me, I’m going to be frustrated. If I focus on what’s great about the person, I’ll be happy in the relationship. So recognizing that any relationship, the more positives there are is what determines that this relationship is feeling good versus not. That’s something that practically I can work on because, again, I’m not trying to change the negatives. I’m saying, “How do I start to very conscientiously focus on the positive parts of the person, the positive parts our relationship? The more I can do that, the happier I will be in my relationship.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Beautiful that’s beautiful. So sometimes, what I do with my clients is we look at why it’s so hard for me to let go of the negatives. There’s something that is–there’s a lesson that is stuck together with that memory–almost like a trauma. In NLP, they explain that the brain, in order to remember things it will capsulate the situation with a lesson, and so you know not to touch fire because it burns you once and so there’s a very important lesson there. You don’t want to stop being scared of fire, so there’s a lot of resistance under the surface that is just trying to help us with keeping us safe and keeping all these lessons in place. When you can unlock that, take the lesson. Make sure you learn what you need to learn, and then let the stuff just sort of settle. It makes your life so much easier to navigate because you’re no longer reliving every single thing over and over again because once it’s capsulated it feels like it was yesterday even if it was 20 years ago. That’s why we have all these lists of memories that we’re so annoyed. When my husband could do something, and I could just like snap about something that he did 10 years ago. “Do you remember you did that? Now you’re doing it again,” That’s exactly what a trigger is–it’s your tap from that memory and because the lesson is so important, you’re not willing to let it go. I work a lot–the focusing on the good is really important but we also work on trying to unpack why it is that it’s so hard for me to stop seeing all the things that I’m seeing, to stop focusing. “Why is it that I can’t let go?” So I think that’s something that—
LEORA MANDEL
I definitely think this is very important because we do get stuck but even just again making the commitment and when I see them stuck this is where if I’m already in therapy or in counseling or in coaching to–this is or maybe I’ll recognize I could benefit from it–but even just making the commitment because it’s like there’s a lot of great things but they don’t consciously say. Even when we remember—you were working in gratitude. Bat-Chen did something great–the gratitude jar. Sometimes I just have to cut and I recognize what this can make a big difference in my happiness–self-care–I have to commit to it. It’s about making a commitment to say what I recognize. It has to be conscious. It may not be natural to me but it doesn’t have to be natural. Consciously, I want to start working on this because, again, if I say, “I want to be happier. I want to feel more positive.” The way to feel more positive is to focus, “I want my relationship to be more positive,” but choosing conscientiously to say, “I’m going to start focusing on the things that bring me joy, that make me feel more positive, doing things for myself that help make me feel positive about me–everything will change.”
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Oh, Leora. We could talk forever but it’s overtime so we’re going to end it here. Thank you all for watching. Make sure that you like and subscribe. Get in touch with me if you want to work with me connectedforreal.com or @connectedforreal on Instagram on Facebook you guys got it. You’re awesome. Thanks so much. Have a great night, and thank you Leora.
LEORA MANDEL
Thank you Bat-Chen. I always love talking to you.
REBBETZIN BAT-CHEN GROSSMAN
Thank you. And that’s it! Thank you for listening to the very end. I would love if you can leave a review and subscribe to the podcast. Those are things that tell the algorithm, this is a good podcast and make sure to suggest it to others. Wouldn’t it be amazing if more people became more connected for real? And now, take a moment and think of someone who might benefit from this episode. Can you share it with them? I am Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman from connectedforreal.com. Thank you so much for listening, and don’t forget, you can be connected for real.