241. How Acceptance Strengthens Your Marriage

Transcript:

  And we are live. Welcome, everyone, to the Connected for Real podcast. I’m Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, and today is a very exciting episode. And I know I say that about some of my episodes, not all, but this is a really fun guest, and it’s a really great topic, so you’re in for a total treat. I’m gonna let her introduce herself, so here we go. Today’s topic is acceptance and marriage, and we have Einat Shpitz. Einat, introduce yourself. Okay. First of all, thank you, Bat-Chen. I’m so happy to be here. I’m really excited about it. On truth, myself, I’m married to Chanan, and we have five children uh, thank G-d. The little one is three, and the eldest one is 17, and we live in Ofra, in Israel. And I think what I can say about myself is that I’m like a puzzle with all kinds of parts. And what I do is I facilitate women’s playback theater groups, and I integrate focusing in what I do. Not everybody knows what that means, so I’m sure we’re gonna talk about it here today, but I love what I do, and I think acceptance, accepting, acknowledging and accepting ourselves and our partners is something very basic and empowering in a good relationship. Yes. I have to tell everyone how we met because, I think it’s really fun to hear the behind the scenes, but I signed up to a course that was for women post-birth, and you were the one who facilitated that. And I think that was the first place we met. I’ve seen you before, but that was, like, the first time I actually was in one of your classes, and it was so powerful. It was such a good experience, and ever since then, I’ve just been walking on, on clouds telling everyone they have to hire you- everybody that they have to go to you. If Einat is doing anything, it is a must to go. You have to do that for yourself. It’s so great. I think I’m one of your biggest fans. Aw, thank you, Bat-Chen. And I have to say that the same way you enjoyed our time together, I enjoyed it in the same way. It just… I feel like when I facilitate these workshops, I enjoy it, and I grow from it, and I get what I give. Oh, yeah. You can totally tell. You can totally tell. So I’ll give you guys a little bit of background. I think it was six or eight times that we met. And you built a real great curriculum that took women who were post-birth through the experience of processing their emotions, processing the experience, processing the birth and the post-birth and just in general all of what it brings with it. And women came in Some with their babies, or most I would say, with their babies- Yeah completely unsure of what to expect, each woman to herself with her baby and her stroller and her things. Yeah. And at the end, we were all hugging and couldn’t let go of each other. It was like I love that. I love it. We were holding each other’s babies like, “Here, hold my baby.” It became like this sisterhood, and I think a lot of times when you sign up for something that is, long-ish term, like it’s not long-term, but it’s, enough time that you could build something together, there is something really fabulous that happens within a group of women. And I think it also had a lot to do with the curriculum, like the way that you built it, and the way it built on each other and on itself, and the parts of us that we healed through the process. It was so powerful. So we’re gonna talk about that a lot today. I- you did mention focusing, so I wanna just like pause there and give everybody sort of a parenthesis on what that is, and then we can continue talking about whatever else comes up. Okay. Sure. Focusing is like a method of really deep listening to ourselves. In the 1970s, Gendlin, he was a psychoanalyst and a philosopher in the States. He asked himself what makes like What makes a treatment effective. And he found that when people like slow down, don’t talk fast fast about everything they know and don’t know, they slow down, and they keep in touch with their felt sense. That’s what it’s called in focusing, and it’s just the feeling in their body. So something shifts and something changes, and you can actually, p- yeah, some of us do it naturally. Most of us, all of us know we all have bodies, so we all know what it feels like when you have butterflies in your stomach or your throat hurts before you have to like to give a speech, or we all know what it feels like when our body is talking to us, but we don’t always listen. And so focusing is really learning this like very deep kind of listening to our bodies, and Gendlin didn’t say this, but I can say that for me it’s like keeping in touch even with our neshamah, with our soul. M- listening to ourselves so deeply that we keep in touch with that, that the deepest part of us- Yeah. I love that. As you’re talking, I’m remembering also that after, I think it was like half a year after we finished our workshop with the group, you did something that was a one-time thing in the forest. It was a preparation for the new year, and I have to tell you, it was so powerful. And it was a different focus, right? The women after birth, it was processing, it was having fun, it was trying to get through it, whatever. In this, it was more like really slowing down and really listening and walking barefoot in the forest. And it was, there was a lot of things that just now as you’re talking about focusing, I’m putting together now of how powerful it was, that one-time experience that slowed us down Yeah. I went into the new year very different. It’s so powerful. Yeah. I agree. And I think that sometimes maybe even I used to look at it like as two different really different things, like slowing down and focusing and meditating, and being, like, really inside. And playback is theater, you wanna show yourself. You wanna be on the stage. It’s something that has a lot of movement in it. It’s not like this meditation. And I find that I’m just… I’m a puzzle that has this side and this side, and they go together. They go together, and I feel like it’s gently sewing the parts together, ’cause sometimes we need to like, let it out and move it and really let go. Let go, and have fun. And I would say even be like children that play and just, you know, enjoy themselves without thinking too much about what it looks like. And sometimes we wanna go inside and be quiet and, really to meet ourselves, and we don’t wanna hear other people. We don’t wanna hear at all. We just wanna turn every, all the sound down c- so we can hear ourselves. And I integrate these things, i- It’s such a true word. You integrate. You integrate it so well. I just realized I, I went to a third thing of yours. It was here on the yishuv, but it was before Purim. That was also a one-time thing, but it was so fun ’cause that’s a very cool place where you integrated it. Bringing in the costumes, and the playful, and also the slowing down, and also the social aspect, but also, going into yourself. There was a lot of in and out, up and down- that the energy was really integrated. So y- as you’re talking, that’s it. I think I only went to three of your things. I don’t think I did any more, as I don’t think any more things will come up in my mind. But as you’re talking, it brings up memories- Yeah … because these memories are so powerful, and I think that’s part of- The experience is that you’re not just like in default mode going from one thing to the next, and everything s- feels the same so it’s not memorable. Right? These are like moments where something happens and something clicks or something shifts or something finally drops, and you’re like, “Ah. Oh.” Yeah. And these are some, things I could really look back and say, “That was the moment something freed in, inside me,” or, you know. I remember I was trying to stop nursing, but I just didn’t feel I could, and that was one thing that, being in your program helped me do. And like I really could pinpoint that specific thing to like, oh, it sort of just like clicked into place and I felt at peace with it. And it didn’t happen right away because it didn’t have to. But at least I wasn’t fighting it and I wasn’t in this like conflict and I wasn’t unsure. I just felt “Huh, okay. I’m good.” By accepting is so much… It’s so powerful, I think, in our lives. I think I f- sometimes I feel like I learn the same lesson again and again, and I’m like, “What? I just had to accept it?” And that’s what helped it to shift. That’s what changed it. That’s what opened up the next level, and it’s always… I think I’m al- I’m surprised every time because sometimes I think, if I’ll be smart enough, I’ll, I’ll find a way to get over it or to do the right thing, and it’s not about that. I find again and again Wow. Just let go. Let it be. Don’t fight with it. Don’t fight with the, with not with your thoughts and not with your feelings. You know what it feels like. You can’t persuade it to feel differently. You can’t. And I think, you just realize again and again that life is always in motion. Things don’t really get stuck. They get stuck when we aren’t able to accept what we’re feeling. And it’s not like it always works for me. I’m saying it genuinely. I’m surprised every time that I realize I wasn’t accepting something. And I think that also in the focusing and also in the playback, there’s a lot of just, let’s just be with what we’re feeling. Let’s just look at it. If … We didn’t explain what playback is, but I’ll say that it’s like we bring our own stories and the other participants, they reflect our story, and we see it in front of us, and that’s all you need to do sometimes. You don’t have to be, like, really smart or a really good actress or, I don’t know. You just … Sometimes you just have to bring your heart and just, show the person what he’s feeling or what she’s feeling, and then suddenly the person that s- that told the story can take a deep breath and just recognize what’s going on with me, how am I feeling, and that acknowledgement is very therapeutic. Yes. Totally. Totally. Some of those exercises are just so powerful because they force you to see yourself from outside of yourself Yes. I don’t know if it forces. I think there’s something very gentle about it. It lets you just look at it. It just puts it there, and it like, tells you, “This is your story. It’s okay. It’s fine. It’s not good or bad. It’s not, something to be ashamed of. It’s a… This is just what it is.” And it, in a group, it’s very strong to feel it’s not that weird. Your story it resonates in me and in others, and you just feel it in the group. And it’s, I think it’s a very gentle way of putting your story in front of you. And then, it’s easier, it- it easier to let it in when it’s gentle, I think. I agree. I’m gonna change my word, too. It allows you to see your story- Yeah. … from outside. It really does. So powerful. Yeah. So let’s talk about marriage, because a lot of the listeners are married, obviously. This is all about marriage. I am a marriage coach. A lot of people are not married and still listening, and they get a ton out of it, and I love you all very much, and I really appreciate that you’re here. And this really is the episode on acceptance in marriage. So I wanna get into that a little bit. I feel like a lot of what we- fight about or what triggers us to think negatively about the other person is the lack of acceptance. Sometimes it’s not accepting him the way he is. Sometimes it’s not accepting myself the way I am. I had that a lot. I can give you examples of I, I really just don’t like being homey. I like doing home things when I’m in the mood, but I’m not into being consistently in the kitchen or consistently making supper or lunch or both. Yeah. I feel very overwhelmed by the fact that you need to eat multiple times a day, and I’m the one in charge. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I always felt very guilty about it. I’m not able to do my, what my husband calls my wifely duties, which makes it even worse- … ’cause he gives it such a fancy name. So I wasn’t able to accept myself for a very long time until I finally broke down and told him that it’s so hard for me, and I feel like I’m always failing, and I need help. And he said, “Oh, what’s the problem? I can help.” yeah. And I realized really the person that wasn’t accepting it wasn’t him, it was me. And … I was really hard on myself. Yeah. I’m not gonna tell you that it’s gone forever. But it- No … feels much easier now to not be as, as in conflict with who I am. Do you think, Bat-Chen, that men accept themselves more naturally than women? Yes Because I have to tell you that I feel like women, us women, we … Wow, it’s so difficult for us to accept ourselves. It really is. We want to be super moms and super wives, and it’s I don’t know, we … That’s what I see around me, women that really And I- I’m one of them, definitely. It’s hard for me to accept myself as I am, and I really … Sometimes I have this twist in my mind with my husband, and I look at him and I say, “Wow, y- I have to learn from him,” because he … His default is accepting himself. Yeah. He’s fine- Yeah. … with the way he is. It’s amazing. I never thought about it. When you asked me, my automatic reaction was, of course men have an easier time. I think that most men will just walk around the world being like, “This is just who I am,” and no emotion, no nothing. Nothing comes up for them in their body when they say that. And if we were to say that even if we faked it or t- tried to say it like, “This is who I am,” ooh, all the stuff comes up. Yeah. I think it really has to do with how G-d created the world, and the fact that the man the man was there just as he was Adam the first person in the world. And, he felt that he was whole. And I think us women, we have other- We have a different point of view. We always wanna connect. We always want it to be, like, together, I think as, between ourselves. And that’s re- really when you go to a group of women, like a workshop or something, it’s so amazing how inspired we are from one another, and how empowered we feel, and how it feels so good to be part of a group of women. And also as a, as, as a wife, I always want more. I always want us to be, like, more together. And I’m … And I feel like the part of accepting myself is a very difficult part. It’s not a natural thing to, for me. I think also I talk a lot about knowing what you want or, connecting to yourself. What do I really want? Yeah. That’s like step one of the CALM method. And I find that men have an easier time. “What do you really want?” “Of course I, I can tell you what I really want. All I want is da, and that’s it.” I’m like, “Really? I’ll be happy with all this.” And you’re like, “What? It can’t be so simple,” right? We overcomplicate it because it really can’t be that simple. But today my husband came home, and the house was all clean. And he walked in, and was pleasant, and was like relaxed. And I realized he’s right. This is really all he wants. Wow. And I’m thinking “I didn’t make any food. I didn’t really do anything. I’m sitting there on the couch reading a book to the kids.” But all he wanted was to be able to come in the house and be able to put his things down and have this calm feeling of not everything is under attack from all the different- yeah. It’s so crazy. It’s so crazy that we overcomplicate it. Naturally it’s almost like our wiring. Yeah. It’s our wiring and it’s our antennas, I feel. We’re always opened. What’s about this child? What’s going on with him? Where is she? What did she eat? How is she feeling? I’m thinking about my mother, my sister, my … I think that’s just most w- I think most women, that’s like how they are, always open. And my children always say when we come to your door at night, how do you hear us before we open the door?” And my husband, they can scream and he doesn’t hear them. So I’m not saying not all the men are like that and not all the women, but I feel like I hear them because I’m always opened to hearing them. And that’s sometimes a good thing, and sometimes a very difficult thing. Because, if I wanna be just us now, a couple, I don’t wanna be always attentive to what’s going on outside, and if the washing machine just finished working or, what’s going on with everybody. So I think acceptance- Do- What? Do you find that having the focusing skills- helps you shut down a little bit of that openness and the noise? Yes. I, when I think when I really get into a focusing session that’s how it is. You have to ve- you have to decide that you’re in a session now, and but I can tell you that I started my way with the focusing, we went to a couples therapy with focusing. Cool. And I think that the s- the kind of listening we learned in the couples therapy was very really influenced our relationship, really influenced it, and it taught us how to listen, mostly how he listens to me. I’ll tell you the truth, ’cause he needs a different kind of listening, and we, we are different. But it was like a language we learned to talk, and it helped us, this language. Can you go into- Yeah … depth about that? ‘Cause that sounds amazing I think today, like when I start talking about something and my husband can start telling me, “Okay, so we can do this and that and this and that,” I can tell him, “No, I, that’s not what I need. I just need you to be with me and help me listen to myself.” And he knows what that means. It’s like a code. He knows that now, c- ’cause there are other times that we need to get our I don’t know, get ready for something, and yeah, we need to be practical, and he does this and I do that. But there are other times when it’s maybe something more emotional and I just need the, to feel connected, to feel like he’s with me. He’s really … He wants to listen to what’s going on inside me. And and it really helps when we can, just say, “This is like the this is this is the code for inner listening now.” I like that a lot. I actually naturally use that also. I don’t know if anybody ever taught it to me, but- I realized that I was getting a different type of listening. Like you’re saying, “I don’t need you to solve my problems. I just need you to listen.” So- Yeah … I don’t say it as calmly as you say it, but I get, I g- I feel my body getting all tense and I feel myself feeling annoyed that I’m not being listened to or that something is off, and then my, before I explode or before I go all woo, I’m able to let it out that, something is off. Something is off. I need you to just be here with me, and it does. It does change the entire dynamic because first of all, I know what I want and know what I need, and then also the ability to, being married for 20 years and be doing that over and over again, I think he’s already learnt what I mean by that. So- Yeah … it works naturally, but I love- Yeah … learnt it as a skill. Yeah. I have to s- tell you that listening is really my thing. I really believe that also as a community, I really want us to have the opportunity to listen to each other differently. I think a lot of times it … I feel, it’s even kev. Pain … like a s- a little, a pain or a sore spot when I feel like people don’t listen to each other. Now, we can’t listen to each other all the time really deeply, but I don’t think it’s enough for an hour a week when you go to a coacher or you go to a psychologist or they’ll listen to you. I think we, we have the tools to listen to each other. And we just, need to maybe a little bit learn it or practice it. And I think in the playback, that’s what we do. I’m doing now a playback for children. A workshop- Yeah … for children for my son and and his friends. And it’s amazing ’cause I really feel like I’m learning them, no, teaching them how to listen to one another without saying anything, without thinking what you wanna say and the next thing you wanna do or say or And, when you have to reflect the person’s story, you have no, no other way to do it. You have to listen, and you have to try to hear the subtext and hear what they’re feeling when they’re talking. And I think this is something that as a as a society I would … I really wish for us to learn. It’s like something very very deep inside of me that I feel like I wanna bring to the world. I agree. I agree. I think that’s one thing that I try to do really intentionally in this podcast is- Inclusive. That’s the word that’s coming in. That’s coming up for me. I try to be very inclusive. I think that one of the coolest things that happened is that I attract people from all the different … all the spectrum. From, Jewish and non-Jewish, religious and not religious, people who used to be religious and chose a different way, people who are from an extreme religious like the Hasidish who, ah, don’t have internet. They go to an internet cafe to meet with me, and it blows my mind, ’cause they don’t know about each other. See, I gotta tell you something. In the beginning of my coaching journey, one of my big values was let me bring all these women together, ’cause these are amazing women, and they’re all in business, and they can all collaber- collaborate, and it’s just something that’s going to blow the world up. Really, the power of women working together and helping each other and being there for each other, wow. And as I was gathering these women and trying to scrape together a group, and I had. I had. I ran, I think, four or six groups. I can’t remember They were amazing. They were very small groups. There was like five and three and six and I don’t remember, like maybe also four. And as I worked with them, each one eventually told me “I loved the group ’cause I love the people in the group and I feel like we’re very connected, but really I didn’t get to go as deep as I would have if it wasn’t one-on-one because it’s my marriage, because it’s so personal, because I need, I need the personal attention.” And so I completely shifted my business based on what people were telling me they needed, while like semi-abandoning this feeling of like togetherness and the glue that keeps us all un- united and whatever. And I haven’t fully abandoned it because I do feel like one day it will come back and become something, especially I feel like one day we’re gonna do something in person, ’cause I feel like there is a power to in-person experience. And- … In my mind already, like for years I’ve been brewing some sort of retreat that’s really high level and, gives enough time to create something really powerful and then really shake up the world in a big way. So it’s been brewing, but- Amazing … obviously the world is unstable, so I- Brewing. It’s brewing too. The world. Brewing too. It just doesn’t feel like the right time to be shifting into grou- group thing or in person right now. And I, I’m obviously gonna continue doing both ’cause once I shifted to one-on-ones I realized that they were right. They … This is exactly what they needed. Women were achieving the same thing they used to get in a year in three months just from having that consistent- One-on-one … one person to turn to and follow and do and ask and pick my brain. Like really it was … It’s very powerful. It’s very powerful. Yeah. That was a long way of … I don’t remember what we were talking about listening to one another, deep listening. I have a deep- Oh yeah. So yeah. So they, because I work one-on-one, they don’t know each other. Yeah. They don’t. But you know- but you know what you have here on the podcast is people that, here, maybe they’re like, you don’t see them, but they’re a group. They’re a group. Of course. And the beautiful thing is that they are a very diverse group and a very united group. Very- I love that … very beautiful group of people. Yeah. I think we’re similar, Bat-Chen, with this, ’cause I really div- diversity as well. I really, I love it. I love diversity and I love feeling connected when, all the things that make us different are just like different colors, and together it’s… It sounds kitschy. I say it and I- it sounds really kitschy, but I… It’s something that I really feel. I myself really, I feel like I’m really made of different parts. Even, my parents, my dad was born in Russia, and my mom in I- Iran, and very different cultures. And I grew up in the States, and I’m from like a non-religious family, and y- a lot of things. And even the playback and the focusing, what I told that it’s like looks different, and like different things. And I love that diversity. It makes the world interesting. And that’s what I like in my groups, I understand what you’re saying. When it’s one-on-one, it’s definitely very deep, and I go to one-on-one too a lot of times. And, when people wanna do focusing with me one-on-one, I do it and I’m happy to do it, but I thrive on the groups ’cause I love the diversity and I love the, the glue and the inspiration that there is. I have to say, you have a superpower for doing groups. You are such a natural leader in catching everybody and gathering everybody, and “This is what we’re doing now.” And there’s such a good energy. It really is so powerful. Ah, I love it.  We were talking about diversity. I signed up for a workshop that was in a completely different town just so that I can go and be in a diverse group. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Because I thought, if I sign up in my town or in my area, it’s all going to be the same type of women, and we’re all gonna be from, talking about the same types of things. And I show up, I’m the only one covering my hair. I am the only one with a skirt. And I find that first of all, it really doesn’t matter. Everybody sees right through it. Nobody would notice. Except the fact that in the picture you’d be like, “Oh, look, she’s different,” or, “Everybody here looks a little different.” Yeah. When you’re in the room, you don’t feel it, and that’s- that’s the power of- Yeah … these types of workshops, ’cause you’re going so deep. Like you said, you’re going so deep that you touch your soul, and then your souls- … each other, and then there’s nothing in between. It’s so powerful. Oh, I love it. I really do. I have like, goosebumps because it really, touches me. Yeah And inspires me, yeah. So if you listen to this podcast and you haven’t signed up for any group thing yet, just go and do it. Please, do yourself a favor, give yourself a gift, and sign up. Any type of workshop that’s group related, go for it. Yeah. I agree. I th- I wanna say something about the playback that I think is really an added bonus on group work. It’s the working with your body. Working with your body is not the same as just sitting and talking. And sitting and talking is nice, and I think good things happen when women sit and talk and share. But I feel like when you get your body into it and you move it and you dance it and you play it like, it just connects your mind with your heart and your body, and we’re people. People have bodies. That’s just part of, I think that’s part of accepting that we’re not angels that just have thoughts or are… We… That’s part of us. That’s part, a beautiful part of us. But we also have our bodies, and we wanna take our thoughts and bring them to our hearts and to our bodies. So I think that’s really an added bonus when you have a workshop that you move with what you feel. Yes. Oh, you just reminded me. So the same time that I signed up to your workshop, I also had a different workshop that was for sister-in-laws who lost a somebody. Most of the women there were married to a bro- to the brother of soldiers who passed away or who fell in battle. Yeah. Yeah. And I… It was me and another girl who are the only ones who were the actual sister of- the person married. to the one who fell, except I was the only one. I always feel like this is a pattern in my life. I belong, but I don’t fully belong. I was the only one whose person who fell was a female, and she wasn’t in the Army. She was, you know, thank G-d it’s already been a year or so, like over a year, so I’m extremely grateful. I have to say, with everything, the first year is hard, second year is harder. I’m, like, putting that out there that thank G-d it’s a different type of hard, that game of acceptance, realizing that- Yeah … oh, it’s actually here to stay. Nothing’s changing. Once you hit the year mark it’s nothing magically reappears or changes. But anyway, the reason why I brought that up was because. What I remembered as we were talking is that in your workshop, obviously we were using our body, we were moving a lot. We weren’t sitting for a lot of it, and we got to act, we got to tell stories, we got to, do exercises with pairs or in pairs. Yeah. And there was a lot of dynamics. And in the other one, it was evening hours. Yours was day- daytime. The other one was evening hours, and it was, like, I think 8:00 to 10:00 at night. And all these women get together, and they’re all sitting down in a circle around. And the person in charge, she … She’s started a conversation, and who can resonate? And then somebody says their story, and then somebody else resonates, and somebody else tells their story. And for two hours we’re sitting in our seats bouncing who connects with what to feel the s- the sisterhood of “Oh, we’re all going through the same thing. We have similar situations. How do you deal with this? How do you deal with that?” And so it was very helpful. But as you said, I think two or three weeks into this experience, I went to her and I said, “I know that you’ve been trained as a playback, uh, facilitator. Why are we sitting for so long?” oh, she was also a playback facilitator? When she introduced herself she said she’s a playback- Ah … facilitator. Ah, that I didn’t know. I was sorta like, expecting it to, okay, maybe the first one was an introduction. Maybe the second one- Yeah … we could learn something. But like, eventually I was waiting for something cool to happen, and nothing happened. So I spoke up, and I went over to her and I said, “I cannot sit in a, in the s- in the chair for two whole hours without getting more and more depressed, because my body is feeling … First of all, I am taking in all of other people’s stories. So not only am I holding my own story, now I’m holding other people’s stories. And on top of that, I don’t have a way to like, sort of shake it off.” Stuck. Yeah. What was the word you said? Stuck. Stuck. You feel stuck. Yeah. Yeah. And I felt a l- I felt … I don’t know if it was stuck. I felt like it was overwhelming, heavy, and so on the way home I’d be driving home, and thank God I had a drive home, because I also got to process and give people rides. And it ended up being a little bit of air space. But I t- I spoke up to her and I said, “I really need it to be more, more active.” so eventually it, it did became more active, because- Gotcha I requested and I spoke up. But I really felt that contrast was so big because I was in two groups at the same time. And I don’t know if I would have seen it if I wasn’t. I don’t know if you remember and if you wanna share, but I remember a really touching moment that was in one of our meetings in the workshop. Yeah when we did a mirroring technique. Mirroring is a very basic and a very strong technique where you just like, act like a mirror, and whatever the person in front of you does, you just do like they do, like they’re looking into the mirror. But it’s not technical like a mirror, yeah, because we’re people and we have hearts. So we actually really try to embody the feeling, not just do the feeling tech- not just do the motions technically. And I think for the person who … The person we’re mirroring, they really feel like somebody is with them, and there’s n- there are no words. Do you remember this? Yeah, totally. Do you remember this? You know- Yeah … and I remember myself looking from the side. I’m not part of it, and, I’m not … Okay, we’re doing the mirroring technique and I saw how it moved you, the fact that somebody, you really felt somebody was with you. Maybe you wanna, y- say something about that. Yeah. It was really powerful. So you put us in pairs, and you said, “Just, tell the story without words and just movements, and you can exaggerate the movements and move in any way that feels the way your body wants-” Connect … to move,” right? Exactly. And as I’m moving and I’m telling the story- as if, whatever, I didn’t really, I didn’t really expect it to do anything. I’m just, “Okay, I’m doing the homework,” type of thing. I’m- … I’m checking the box. And having someone on the other side just completely mirror and be there and hold it and receive it I started feeling like, “Oh, wow.” Like, I don’t know. I don’t know what to- I don’t remember what I felt. I remember wanting to cry, and actually it was the first time I actually got to cry. It was… I was… In the mirroring exercise, I was telling her about the baby. Like the whole experience of my sister-in-law being killed, but then the baby survived two weeks and then also passed away, and just being at the funeral and holding the baby and whatever. So I didn’t really ever process… It was h- being in your class was very soon after, and I remember asking you “Is it okay if I’m, like, sorta triggered?” and you were so cool about it, and I think that was a life, lifesaver because it was the only place that I had to be able to process. And this person has no idea what I’m telling her. All I’m doing is all these gestures, and I’m, like, talking about this and that, and I’m putting my hands like this and up and down, and I’m, like, cradling a baby. I’m like, whatever. I have eight kids. She doesn’t know who I’m talking about. And as I’m doing it you then realized, I guess you were from the side, and you realized something was happening, so you told me you could close your eyes and trust that she’s still mirroring you. And at that point, I closed my eyes and I just continued telling the story, but tears were coming down my face because I never got to process the emotions that came with the experience, and I think it was really the first time that I cried. Legit was able to get into the emotions and into my body, and it was such a huge relief. It was a huge moment for me. And it’s so interesting that you remember that specific moment. I really remember that. Ugh. I… Even now, it’s bringing up stuff. Wow, that was really cool. Recently I went to a breathwork with Chana Mason. Mm-hmm. I don’t know if you know her, but she’s really good. And it was really interesting. It was a sort of full circle ’cause right before the shooting, right before the shooting, I went to two breathwork sessions with her. And then I felt like that prepared me for the event. And it’s a very weird- Wow … thing to say, but every single one of us said that we feel like God prepared us for it. Gave us the tools- Wow … G- gave us s- some sort of knowing that we’re gonna be okay. So for me, it was the, the two breathwork sessions, which were very powerful. My brother says that he was listening to faith and like stories of how G-d runs the world, and he’s always there for you, and, nothing is ever lost and whatever. And like for two weeks he’s just coming home and telling his wife all these cool stories, and she was so excited to hear, and she was, “Yeah, bring more, and tell me more.” And so it just built him up, and he felt like it was so random. Who listens to all these YouTube videos over and over again, like from different speakers and different angles and all these stories? It was really cool. Anyway, so Then recently, when it was a year, when it was, like, exactly after a year, I felt, okay, fine. I’ve been avoiding going to her ’cause it felt like too connected, but now I can go and create closure. And I went, and that was the second time I was able to really cry about the baby. Mm. And it, it helps. It helps to, okay, like it calms down. I think w- as we’re talking about acceptance, I wanna sort of- … back. I think it’s, realizing that the more you accept that this is the reality and that this is what it is, the more you’re able to then live with it or live beside it. It’s here. It’s not going anywhere. It’s part of my story now. It’s part of our story now, whatever it is. And you adjust to how it’s affecting you or how… Where does it sit now? Does it have to sit right here in front of my face? Does… Can it sit on my shoulder? Can it maybe move down to my, hang out here a little bit? You’re trying to find a comfortable position to hold all these parts of your story, and I think it’s really interesting to see that. Yeah. While you were talking I also thought about acceptance how our faith is accepting that what happens is what God wants us to go through. And it can be very hard, and it can really hurt, and it can be a lot of things, but it’s accepting that it’s like something that He wants for us, and it’s not an accident. And I think that faith, there’s a lot of, a lot of working on accepting there. And I think as a couple in marriage, I think there’s something similar that when you practice accepting that the characteristics of your husband or your wife, they’re not an accident or they’re not like just something you don’t want, and you want them to be different. There’s a reason that he’s like that, and I’m like this, and it doesn’t go together just naturally. Sometimes it feels really- I think, accepting really trying to understand that it’s part of something a whole something bigger. It’s part of- I love that something bigger, yeah. Yeah. I think it’s like it really changes, for me it changes the way that I that I feel my marriage because, you know, when I, When I try to connect to that idea, I understand that the things that don’t work naturally or, you know, I don’t like or I wish it was different or, okay, I should listen. I should listen ’cause God is sending me a message, and He’s sending it through my partner that I’m very connected to and I love maybe that way I’ll be able to listen to it. And for me it is definitely something that helps me. I tell myself, “This is for life. I’m not here to check out if, we’re, it’s gonna work. No. I understand that the way he is and the way I am we’re gonna change, but it’s for life, and I’m gonna grow. We’re gonna grow together.” And for me, when I really when I hazarti beschubah, when I started learning about c- reconnecting to the Torah or connecting for the first time for me understanding what a couple is and what a marriage is something that really very much And very much Influence … influenced Influence Influenced my whole state of mind until today. It’s something that goes with me. You know, Shabbat marriage, these are, like, the big things in the world for me. Faith. Yeah. I love it. I love it. As you’re talking, I’m remembering a parenting course that I went to. It was with the Sheffer approach. And, I still go to this specific coach because she really gets me, and she’s on the ball with- Yeah … Anything that comes up. Ugh, I love her. So the first time I ever went was, like, I don’t know, maybe 10 year- it was for sure, yeah, I was pregnant with Yeshayahu, so 10 years ago. Over 10 years ago. I went to this class for the first time, and she said, “If your children were supposed to have perfect parents, then you would have been perfect. But obviously you’re not. So your children are meant to live with imperfect parents in order to learn the world, and in order to gain skills, and in order to grow muscle, and that’s just how it’s going to be.” And I remember hearing this and just being like, “Ha.” That was such a relief, that I am not expected to be perfect as a parent. I am expected to be human as a parent. And as you’re saying this, I’m like, oh, and it goes further to your husband. If you were supposed to have a perfect husband, then he would have been perfect. But guess what? He’s not. So obviously your husband was not meant to be perfect, because you don’t need a perfect husband in order to reach your potential, and in order to get to where you need to do and actually live your purpose. He’s here to be exactly him, to be human. And it, it was so beautiful how it just clicked in my mind just now. Like, Boom. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Bat-Chen, for me, you’re, you are really somebody that that this understanding and your faith is something that’s really face forward. I see it on your face, and you … I really feel from you that it’s something that you embody. And for me,… I love meeting you because of this. That’s amazing. Thank you. Yeah. Can I ask you how old y- were you when you became religious? Yeah, I I s- I was like… It wasn’t a one day, yeah? I, after I f- I filled my duties in the army I was, like 21. And I, in the army, for the first time, I met Jewish women, ’cause I didn’t meet any before. When I was in preschool, in kindergarten and first grade, I was in a Jewish school in Salomon Schechter. So I had a principal that went with a kippah. That’s a different kind of Jewish religious act, I think. But, in the army was the first time I met and it was so interesting for me. We said how I like diversity, so it was so interesting. How do these weird people live? So weird, the things they do, or the things they don’t do, and why. And after that, I went to learn in a midrasha. And I didn’t go because I wanted to become religious. There are people that, that go to learn ’cause they wanna be religious. I went to learn ’cause I just wanted to learn, really. And for me it was like, wow, opening up a, how do you say it? A otsar. Treasure? Treasure, yeah. It was like, m- mamash, opening up a treasure. And something that, you know, when I think about it today, I feel so lucky and so loved that I had that opportunity And then, changing and changing the way I live, it was very slowly, turning off my phone on Shabbat, and deciding not to drive, and, doing kidush, very step by step, ’cause I’m, that’s the person I am. I don’t like doing things quickly. I believe in gentle transmissions transition, yeah. Yeah. Transmissions. Yeah. Gentle transitions is such a beautiful word for you, because of the work that you do, and the way that you help people transition so gently and so smoothly into the person they want to become without making it hard or complicated. And some of the work, a- I’m talking from total experience and knowing you, and just loving you so much, being in your presence, and being in your groups, and being able to lean into what you’re telling us to do, or the instructions, it’s always about allowing and accepting, like from the word receiving, accept what is coming in, and allow it to be there, and do what it needs to do, and just flow through you. There’s something so powerful, and so you just … The words that you just used were so …… Wow. I had to- Thank you … I had to But what you did now was a reflection for me. I don’t know if you f- if you felt it, but you were, like, moving like this, and I just felt like you were doing, you were giving me a reflection. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you. ‘Cause, I feel like you, I feel like you understand me. I feel like, you see me. When you know how to y- you say the words, and you also move the move, and it’s, it feels like it’s a very nice feeling. So thank you. You’re welcome. So beautiful. Ugh, we could talk all day. I want to say one more thing about the acceptance before we close, and s- … specifically about marriage. Because I mentioned my coach, who is all about Scheffer, and so I went to her parenting course, and then afterwards I did her marriage course. And in the marriage course, there was, a lot of things that were really powerful about acceptance, and realizing that accepting isn’t making it okay, but it’s realizing that it is what it is, and now, what are you going to do about it? What is in your control, and how are you going to deal? And one of the things that I was dealing with for a long time, and praying for, and like wishing for, and just holding, and I’m using the word holding very intentionally because I feel like I physically was holding something for my husband. I wanted him to dot, it was so funny because here I am, I want him to work, I want him to change, I want him to do, I want him to put in the effort, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but I am the one holding it. And recently, like, for us right now in this time zone, ’cause like you guys are listening, it’s been like a couple of weeks since we recorded. But last week I went to a two-day retreat that was all about workshops, and it was amazing. It was a very well put together workshop retreat. And it was all about processing, and then there was like, trance dance therapy where you like had earphones and you got to move your body. It was so cool. It was so cool. The whole thing was awesome. Very highly, I highly recommend it. So anyway, apparently as I was in this experience- … I put down what I was holding, and I don’t know if I did it intentionally or if I just did it because it made sense. But I came home, and a couple of days later my husband started doing all the things , that I was always wishing he would do. And it was almost like magic. And I came to… on Sunday, a couple of days after this whole experience, I come to her and I say, “I have no idea, but this is what happened.” And she says, “Do you see what happened?” And she’s trying to reflect it back to me. “You put it down, so he picked it up. You can’t be holding it together. There… Two people cannot hold the same piece of responsibility. You put it down-” “… he picks it up.” And I thought, oh, that is so much acceptance, if we had to talk about anything, we would not be able to skip this story because I think for, for the majority of my 20 years, I’m sitting there wishing and hoping and praying for something to change, while in reality I’m not allowing it to happen. Yeah. There’s so much to learn about living in a couple, right? Yeah. There’s so much to learn. And I think one of the things you said is “I’m here to stay, and I’m here to learn, and I’m here to improve, and I’m here to grow,” and there is something so beautiful about that attitude. And I actually had one of my clients was in this place of frustration “I don’t know. Is it supposed to be over? I don’t know what to do anymore,” and this almost like, you know, give up hope type thing. And then she hired me because she felt like she’s really not holding it together. And within three months she’s like, “Oh, for sure we’re not getting divorced. There’s no way. This is too important. I can do this. I have the skills.” And things started to change. Their conversations are changing, the dynamic is changing, and it’s really that acceptance that changing the person in front of you is not really going to change what you need to work on or what you need to go through. So just like we were saying before about like, if this is the mom you’re supposed to get, changing a mom isn’t gonna make a difference to the journey that you have to go through. You’re still gonna have to go through that same, roadblocks and obstacles and jump over hoops and whatever because that’s just your life, and that’s how it’s going to be. So a lot of people are like, “Oh, I’m just gonna change husbands, and it’s gonna all be better.” It’s like sometimes, G-d is pushing you to have to stand up for yourself, and yes, I do believe that there is a place for, for these types of things. That’s why it’s part of the Torah. Yeah. I don’t believe that it’s… I’m not a anti-divorce coach. I do think that there are times, and I even myself would tell somebody if this is the r- the right time for them. But for the most part, I think that just accepting the fact that, oh, let’s figure it out because that sort of lowers the intensity, and it lowers the amount… You were saying you’re not a person who likes to jump into things and go too quickly. What if you slow down and stop thinking, yes or no? Do we need to get, separate? Do we not? Lower the intensity for just a moment and get into your own body, get into yourself, get into what you want. There’s something so powerful about that. So powerful, and I think that we all need somebody to be with us when we wanna do that, that slowing down. When it’s intensive things that are emotionally hard to be with it’s it’s really hard to do it by yourself. It’s impossible. And and things that happen to us in our marriages and with our children and in our lives ge- just things, in Israel. So many things we go through, really so many things. And I think, you know- Yeah. It’s not natural to do it by yourself. And I think that men, like religious men, they have the framework. It’s very structured, I don’t know, that’s, maybe that’s what’s right for them, yeah? They have the minyan. They have, They have the places they meet. And us women we need to like, stand up and say, “Okay, we’re meeting. We’re talking. I’m going to a friend. I’m going to a coach. I’m going to a workshop. I’m gonna do something, ’cause I wanna help myself live this life the best I can and grow, and…” And there’s so many women that, that I wanna tell them, come,” just like you said before. There’s so many ways just not to be alone, because it’s r- it’s really difficult. It’s really difficult embodying the things we go through without someone to share it with and to be with us. Yeah. So- I think that you totally hit it on the head when you said that women have this need to connect and be together, and men are naturally more structured. They get their social fix by being part of something bigger, but being an individual. And it’s, it’s nice and cool for them. Yeah. It’s also why men have a harder time understanding why women need so much coaching, and why they want so badly to go to these things. And why do you spend so much money? And why are you going? And why are you doing? A lot of times it’s from the lack of understanding that we’re built differently. And for the men, going into your cave, figuring it out, and then coming out with a solution makes total sense. For women- Yeah … talking about the problem and trying to get all of the input from everyone else who’s been there, and then- … processing it and trying to get to a result is the way that women work, right? Yeah. Just the understanding, the acceptance that this is how we are is going to make it so much easier to then say, “Oh, so that’s what you need. That’s how you thrive. That’s what makes sense to you. Go for it.” And I’ve seen men become a lot more supportive, a lot more supportive when they understand and accept that we’re different. And then because they’re such loving men, they want their wives to be happy, and they’re, they have an easier time allowing it, and they have easier time supporting it, because it finally clicked. Yeah. Acceptance. Acceptance. Do you have anything else that you want to say about acceptance before we close up? That’s, that it’s easier said than done. That’s it That we have to remind ourselves and support ourselves and be there for one another, ’cause doing it is harder than talking about it. And I think that’s what we opened with, is like even we have a harder time with acceptance. Yeah. Because as trained as we are, if we don’t get together and intentionally do it for each other, then it’s- Exactly. Exactly … we’re stuck in the same, we’re stuck in the same loops as every other human being. Exactly. It’s really beautiful. Yeah. I love that you said that, giving people just accepting that we are, exactly where we are, and it’s okay. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Thank you so much for coming. How can people find you? How can they hire you? How can they come to your stuff? That’s a good question. That’s the part that I’m not really very good at, yet. But there’s my phone number, there’s my email. I’m a little bit on Facebook. And I guess through you, people can get to me as well. And I feel like I really wanted to come here, first of all ’cause I really like you and I was interested how this conversation is gonna be. And also, I really wanna meet more people. I love women, I love diversity. I have my English and I have my, like my youth in The States, something that’s not really part of my life today. So I wanna say that women that come to Israel and wanna go through a workshop or feel what it’s like, Playback or Focusing, they’re really invited to come. Yeah. And- Don’t worry, we’re going to link below all of your information. So if you guys are in Israel or you’re coming to Israel, and you want to experience something really awesome- Yeah definitely this is something to experience. And if you wanna invite me to be part of it too, I totally will come, ’cause I live not too far away. Oh, that would be so fun. Sometimes it’s just for the fun and for the feeling good, a good vibes and good energy, and sometimes, you know, it’s something deeper. You can take it to here or that. They’re all g- all good. All good ways and things. I feel like it’s always both. You know how you say it’s a puzzle? You’re always going in for the good vibes and the fun, and like, when I tell my husband I’m going to something, I’m not telling him, “I have to do some inner work and deep stuff. I really need to sign up for this.” I tell him like, “Oh, this sounds fun.” Yeah. “I’m gonna sign up.” And I always know in the back of my head that something is gonna come out of it, because I have this belief that I always get my ROI, which is return on investment. And so if I sign up for something, I will always get something out of that. And it’s always going to be worth the value that I put in. And that belief really takes me through a lot of really fun things. ‘Cause if I know I’m gonna get so much out of it, it’s not so hard to invest. It’s not so hard to come up with, you know- … making it work and putting in the work. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that’s so cool. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you listeners for listening, for coming with us all the way through this beautiful journey about acceptance. And I think it was really fascinating and beautiful and honest and reflective. And I enjoyed it very much, so thank you. Thank you. Good night. Good night. And don’t forget to be connected for real.