206. Expand Yourself to Improve Your Marriage

Transcript:

  Welcome to the Connected For Real podcast. I’m Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business. And my mission is to bring God’s presence into your life, into your marriage and into your business. Let’s get started. 

And we are live. Welcome everyone to the Connected for Real podcast. I’m Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, and today with me is Rivke Rivke. Introduce yourself and tell everyone why you’re so cool. And then we’ll get into our topic of expansion and marriage.  Okay. So my name is Rivke Gardner. I live in Cleveland. I’m a marriage coach.

And I love what I do. Marriage has been my topic of obsession for the last 21 years since I got married. Just trying to figure out how this really works, how to help people make it work best for them, and really create the most beautiful marriages that they’ve always dreamed of. So that’s what I do and what I love. 

Okay. That’s amazing.  Let’s start with our topic. Lemme just give a, an overview For those who don’t know. Around here we have four pillars. So anything that I do in any part of my business, God is at the core. Then there’s marriage and business that are working together because that is what I’m all about is the balance of the two, and then you are the container that holds all the pieces.

So  based on those four pillars, my topics for the podcast are sort of like, systemized that every single month there is one topic and we attack that topic from different angles. So last week we talked about expansion and God, and how you could expand yourself through your relationship with God and the things that you’re living through.

That was a really good episode. If you didn’t hear it, go back and listen. It was my brother. And then this week we’re talking about marriage and expansion within marriage and how you could use marriage to expand and how you can expand your marriage. You know, we’re gonna get into that. And then next week is going to be expansion in business and the week after expansion and you.

And that is how we do every single month around here. And there’s been some really awesome topics that we’ve had. So if you’re new, make sure you check ’em out. So let’s get into expansion. ’cause I’m really excited about that topic. Yeah. Yeah.  What comes up for you when I say expansion and marriage? 

Yeah, so I, as I was just thinking about that, ’cause I know expansion and marriage can come from a bunch of different angles. I think the first thing that popped up for me was that I view marriage as a growth incubator and a vehicle for our own personal expansion. And that’s really the angle that I come in from with all my women.

So I believe there aren’t mistakes. Hashem put us with our husbands and he’s supposed to push our buttons. He’s supposed to hit our unfinished business and he’s supposed to push us to grow and become who we are meant to be. And so it’s normal to have distress in a marriage ’cause who, besides for the people closest to us, are gonna hit those places inside of us that still need healing, that still need growth.

And so that’s like the first thing I just wanna say to women. And by the way, I know this is for women and men and it’s for women and men. I work, the reason that I’m talking to women is ’cause I work directly with the women. Specifically do I, by the way, so do I. And I also know that there are men listening and I, you know, appreciate your listenership.

And we, you know, we both.  Talk to women and all of my guests, except my family members. So I had my brothers, my father, my husband all my guests are women because yeah this is who we’re talking to and this is who we’re addressing. So, yeah. So yeah, so I, I think what I want women to know is that if they’re in distress, if they are feeling lonely, if they’re feeling disconnected, if they’re feeling hurt, it’s normal.

It doesn’t mean anything about your husband. It doesn’t mean anything about you. It doesn’t mean anything about your marriage other than it means there’s space for expansion. There’s space for growth inside of you that’s just being opened up here and opening up anything can sometimes be painful.

So  those were my first thoughts when I was thinking about expansion. I love it. I love it. Lemme just tell you when I think of expansion.  I think I bring this example a lot because it just hits the point. So, well, if I tell you, you know, what would you do? You have a plate and it’s full with all the things you know, and now you have to decide like, do I take the dessert and take off something else, or do I leave the dessert out?

Like, what do you do with a full plate? So most people will start to choose what’s more important and what do I do and whatever. And I’m like, just get a bigger plate. You know, like, what if you can have it all and there would be enough space if you just expand the container. And that’s what I’m talking about when I say expand yourself. 

We are all vessels that are holding.  Everything that we hold, right? So especially women, we’re holding a lot. So instead of feeling really tight and really overwhelmed and really like it’s all coming out from the top and I don’t know what to do about it. Like, what if you just pause for a second and create more space and then everything will feel a little bit more comfortable.

So it’s easier said than done. A lot of people are like, yeah, but how? So that’s what we’re getting to here.  We’re gonna get really practical about what you can do to feel expansion in your marriage.  Yeah, actually as you’re saying that, you know, it’s something that I’ve thought about and grappled with a lot, especially it’s really scarcity versus abundance mentality and that idea of like, you know, there’s only one pizza here and it’s sliced into pieces and if someone else takes that piece, then there’s not left for me.

And I think what you’re speaking to is this idea of that that is ever expanding. There’s not a limited amount of time, there’s not a limited amount of love, there’s not a limited amount of money really in this world that that just can constantly, the bigger the vessel we create, the more and more can come in.

So that’s as you were speaking, that was sort of what was coming to me and it’s something like I’ve thought about a lot. Wow. I love, I love that, you know, thinking there’s not a limited amount of time you said that and I was like, really? You know, because we’re so trained to think that time is, you know, is very limited.

Then suddenly you said that and I was like, yeah, just yesterday I told someone that I have an assistant and I delegate a lot because if not, I wouldn’t be able to do this.  And she said, really? I never thought of that. I said, yes, because you can buy time, you know? And then I thought, as you were saying this, I’m like, yes, bingo.

You know, if the pizza  is not,  you know, ever, ever ending. I don’t know how to say that. Like constantly flowing.  No, I’m, now, I’m seeing in my head like an overflowing pizza. But anyway, if the pizza keeps rejuvenating itself and you just, you know, keep taking and nothing happens, no one else loses when you take, then you completely change your entire way you eat pizza. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it.  Okay, so keep going. Sorry, I cut you off. Yeah, no. So I guess going delving a little bit back into, I’d love to hear more about you and how to get people, ’cause I don’t think I’ve cracked that code yet of how to get people in.

I’m still working on it, out of that scarcity mentality into the abundance mentality. But when, going back to what I was saying about expansion and expansion of self through the marriage, I was thinking about a bunch of different processes that I go through with women  to take ownership of their own.

Healing or their own growth within the marriage, which is actually the answer to the question that I get asked all the time. How do you work only with the woman if it’s a marriage? Right? And I’m sure you get that question all the time. Also like, how are you gonna fix a marriage with only the woman working with you?

And I think the answer to that, that I feel like is, is if it’s just a growth incubator, then as the woman looks at what’s coming up for her next to the marriage, whatever hurt, whatever disappointment, whatever resentment, she can dive in, take ownership of that, use that to move forward and grow. And then the whole dynamic of the marriage shifts.

So I thought about a bunch of different examples I had of that. I don’t know, you know, if you wanna hear them right now or if you have something more to add before that. Yes, I totally love it. Let’s get into some examples. That sounds amazing. Okay. So yeah. So I was thinking about the topic of resentment is one that’s very dear to my heart because I think it’s something that tons of women struggle with. You know, I wonder where that shows up with you and your, you know, they’re, as they’re growing their businesses and where that shows up, I’d love to hear about it more, but for me, for sure, I have so many women who, whether they’re resentful that they’re doing everything in the house and running themselves ragged and their husband’s sitting on the couch reading his paper or looking at his phone, or even looking into his safer, right?

His book that he’s learning you know, whether it’s in that way, whether it’s.  You know, for me, it showed up when I was being as a younger newlywed, so, so careful about every single penny that I was spending. And then my husband just was a little bit more free with money. Talk about money scarcity, right?

And he would go spend the money on something and I was like, oh my goodness. Like I never buy myself anything. And then what I wanted to do was go change him and tell him he has to stop spending money on all these things. But when it finally clicked for me that it’s not about him stopping to spend money on all these things, it’s about what do I need that I am not giving myself permission to have?

Or what do I want? Like a whole new world opened up. It wasn’t about changing him, it was about me tuning into myself and what I needed. And I love that. I have an example of this just to like, help people put it more into their lives in case this resonates with anyone. I have been like, ah, I really want, you know, a smoothie maker, you know, like the, the blender and I really want a blender, but it’s so expensive, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

And then my husband decides he needs a food processor to make the sauerkraut.  He just goes and buys one and like, he does not think twice about it. He doesn’t bother the whole, you know, world with different options and what, whatever. He goes to the store, he finds out what’s the cheapest, what makes sense.

Okay, I’ll take this one by.  I’m like, shocked.  But here’s the thing. I learned so much from him.  Yeah. I learned so much from him instead of being annoyed with him, that he went and just spent the money and just got himself whatever he needed, and it’s not fair and it’s whatever. And like all the stories I could have gone into, which I totally like, you know, already saw in my very close horizon.

 I just sat there and said, wow. I learned something that I don’t think I ever saw before, which is you could just buy what you need. You know, like something I’m not used to.  Yeah, so it’s not, to me it’s not even just the lesson learned from him. It’s sort of what we’re like meeting inside ourselves, which is this block towards spending on things that we need for ourselves or the scarcity mentality.

And that’s what’s really showing up. I have another example of a client that, and this one is probably very relatable to people who, her husband loved to go hiking, so he would take these like long hiking trips. She didn’t wanna really go hiking with him, so she would stay home with the kids and he would go, you know, for three, four days with a friend and they would go out and do these hiking trips and she showed up and she was really resentful.

Like, you don’t just leave your family and go and do this. So first, I just I asked her a lot of questions so that she could open up to what actually this was doing for her husband and him following this passion and having this time for his own expansion, actually.

What, that he could come back to his family and to his wife in a different way. So that was definitely one angle we took there and looked at, and I try not to give advice or to give people the answers, just start asking questions so that they could come to that on their own and see what’s going on for them.

 Another question I asked her, and this is commonly what I ask when someone’s resentful, is, what do you love doing that you’re not letting yourself do?  And she was able to answer that she loved dancing and hadn’t done that in years and years and years. And she wasn’t giving herself the time, the permission, the space to pursue that.

And so then it got hyperfocused on. My husband is pursuing his love and his passion and his, you know, expansion and I’m not for myself. And that led her to start moving towards something that was important to her. And she started dancing again. So that’s where I just see that when we move away, the focus from my husband is the problem.

But instead, he’s just a vehicle to point me inside to work that I need to work through myself. We can open up just new worlds and then the resentment goes away. And now we’ve expanded her. She’s moved into expansion.  I love it. And I wanna just say this is a perfect example of why we work only with women. 

It would not be the same if he was there because to go so deep and see where does this meet me and how is this really showing up for me and my resentment and, and the things that I don’t let myself do. If your husband was in the room, he’d be like, what do you mean you have permission to do anything?

You know, I’m not stopping you. He would be so defensive. He would think that it’s about him. It’s not about you, honey. It’s fine. Just you’re off the hook.  And also she wouldn’t be so honest as to like say, oh, I love to dance. If he’s around and she’s a little like, you know, shy about it or whatever.  Be on your own, show up and take responsibility for the things that you could do.

And then magic happens. And really, the husbands love it because I don’t know a lot of husbands that wanna be like dragged to the therapists just to like figure out problems. They don’t know what they caused. Like, you know, I was like, I don’t know what I did, but I must be in trouble. That’s what it feels like to them.

So just don’t, it, it’s not working. Don’t, don’t bother. If it is working.  Continue. Okay.  Yeah. I have a question for you though, because I find a lot of women, and I’m, I’m wondering how you create this shift. Mm-hmm. A lot of women are so focused on he’s the problem that moving into this space, that he’s just pushing my buttons and I need to look at my stuff.

Meaning, this is the work I do with women. This is the angle I take. And it sounds like you do too, but how do you facilitate that shift? Because some women can get really, really stuck in No, he’s the problem. He’s gotta change. I’ve gotta fix this in him. Like, nothing is gonna be better, my life will not be better until he changes.

So how do you work that piece? I’m just curious. So usually my podcast is a really good vehicle for that. By the time they get to work with me, they’re ready to take responsibility and. Watch the magic happen. Like they are already so ready, they’re like, okay, that’s it. I’ve run away the from this for long enough.

I’m just like gonna, you know, click the button, schedule a discovery call, make a plan, jump in, like, I’m ready. So when they’re actually working with me, they’re already open up to whatever it takes to help me feel better. Right. So it’s like I am only working with the person who wants to feel better. I’m only working with the person who wants the balance.

I’m only working with the person who’s willing to  have that expansion. Your husband is not interested. Don’t bring him in. And even if he is interested, you know,  he, he’s not mine, he’s someone else’s. Right. Okay. But one of the cool things that,  one second, you said something, I wanna go back to it before I say something else.   The first offer I put out when I was brand new was Fix your Husband in 90 minutes.  And it was basically going through the work by, by and Katie  on your husband and dumping it all out onto paper. My husband is selfish. He couldn’t care only about himself, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And this is what he did. And this is what I think about him and this is what he needs to do, and this is the advice that I need to give him. And, you know, all the stuff. Get it all out on paper, let’s work through it. And at the end of it, you’re going to feel much better. And it always works except the name, fix Your husband in 90 minutes did not fly because most people were very triggered by it.

And I started getting all this like, you know, comments going off like. Crazy fire. Like my husband is not a washing machine. He doesn’t need to be fixed. And all these like, you know, the people who were a little bit ahead and weren’t hearing what the original question was, which is like, how do I fix my husband? 

So it’s a little funny. It’s the way I learned marketing.  I still think it’s a great offer and if anybody ever worked with me, it works. Now we are down to 60 minutes. But anyway but that you get built into my program because as soon as you come in, you have a whole training on Byron Katie, you have a whole training on, you know, all the other things that I teach.

So now I’ll go back to what I wanted to say.  I feel like the podcast is a way for people to go through the stages on their own. Because if you are still blaming your husband for making you resentful, for holding you back in your business for  being so selfish for whatever it is that he is, and I’m not negating, he might still be and that’s fine, but like, that’s not your problem.

That’s his,  if that’s the place where you’re at,  I am not really sure. Getting help at this stage is going to move the needle as far as you’d like it to, because there is a shift that has to happen that’s internal that creates the openness or the expansion to then change.

So.  I found that if I give a free resource where people are constantly listening and constantly hearing different guests and different experts and different people talking about your life from a different angle every time, eventually it’s going to go from I have this problem, a husband to, I found the solution, the answer is within me to then go and look for the product that’s going to fix the thing I need fixed or align my vision or my view or what is supposed to happen.

It’s just like, sometimes it’s just like these tiny little alignments and it’s like, oh, God isn’t in the picture. One second. God gave you this husband. He knows what he’s doing. Let’s just refocus.  Sometimes the answers are so simple, but they’re ready to hear it and then boom, it opens up the whole, the whole thing. 

Wow. Okay. Yeah, that, I do think that that’s, I, I just think because out there in the world there is this conception of, if, you know, I’m in distress in my marriage, my husband is the problem. So it’s always like that first step until people can, once they dive in and can look inside. And I love what you said about Byron Katie’s work.

’cause that was actually another one of my examples of, I love that work because what it does is it just, I said besides for it helps you let go of the judgment on your husband and then open up to more ability to hold space and.  Have unconditional love and all of those things. I really find that the turnarounds point you inward directly into your work.

So it’s like if there’s a woman who’s saying, my husband isn’t giving me compliments and not telling me I’m pretty, and now I’m not feeling good, and then she’s, you know, able to look at that belief and work through it and then get to this place of turning around, I’m not feeling good about myself, I’m not giving myself compliments, I don’t feel, then it’s like, it just totally flips again, the focus from this is about him to, I’m not feeling good about how I look and I need to work through that.

So it’s, I feel like it’s a very amazing tool and conduit to sort of shift the focus to where it really needs to go. Yeah, and you know, your example is another one of my trainings, which is the Five Love Languages, and is also so powerful because the example you just gave of, he doesn’t give me compliments and I feel bad about myself and all these things.

Like her love language is words of affirmation and his love language is not right. Yeah. So he’s probably not spending quality time or words of affirmation towards her. He’s probably just like act of service and he’s taking care of all this stuff. Assuming that she understands that if he’s doing the dishes, it means he loves her and if he cleans up after the kids, then it means that he really cares for her.

And she’s sitting there going, he just does dishes and like cleans up the house but has nothing to do with me. You know, as like the five Love languages are also a really powerful training because once you realize how  different you communicate. What things mean to different people, then it really alleviates a lot of the problem. 

Yeah, yeah. It is. It’s a great tool and a great way to look at what’s going on and the stories that we build around. He doesn’t love me. He doesn’t care. And then when you sort of look at it through that lens, it can just dissolve. So, yeah. Lemme give you an example of  the work by Byron Katie.

When I first learned about it, I went deep into it and I watching every training and all the things, but I was not willing, subconsciously I was not willing to do it on myself. And then, but I’m like hearing it and hearing and hearing, you know, like you’re watching the thing but you’re not really ready.

And then we’re in bed and my husband starts telling me about his day and what goes through my head is. He’s so selfish. He’s just talking about himself and he doesn’t even ask questions about me or ask me how my day was going and nothing like he’s just blabbing and blabbing and blabbing at his day. I was so selfish.

And so, and then I was like, wait,  is that true? My husband is selfish.  I’m standing here in my head talking about how selfish he is, not listening to a single thing. He’s telling me about his day, expecting him to talk about me who’s, who’s the selfish one here? And as soon as that happened, I was like, okay, that’s it.

I’m ready to do the work. Sit down with a piece of paper, do it right, and really get to the bottom of it. I love, I love it. And you said you like the turnarounds. I love the parts where you give advice to the other person and then you have to turn it around and give the advice to yourself. Is like priceless. 

Yeah, because it’s really, it’s giving you the direction. It’s just this indication of the other person’s just the mirror directing us back into our own inner work. It’s, it’s always what it is and that’s, that’s another piece of work that I do with people, which is the Demartini method where we look at what about them is bothering me, and then I own it inside myself, which you sometimes get to in Byron Katie, but it’s like, what are the pieces inside of me that I’m rejecting, that I’m now seeing inside of him?

And where can I meet that humanity inside of me and embrace the fact that we’re both imperfect human beings, but both worthy of love and respect and connection. So there’s, yeah. It’s really when you look at marriage as this, like self-development workshop for expansion and growth, it becomes a whole different story.

Yes. And that, yeah.  Wow. It’s fascinating. It’s fascinating. And people say like, I don’t really understand expansion. I don’t know what you’re talking about. You know, and it’s like, this is it people, this is it. Because you can’t understand it until you feel it. You said, you know, rejecting parts of ourselves, a lot of people reject parts of their past.

They reject parts of themselves that they hate, things that they have done that they feel so bad about that they disconnect from themselves. And  when I talk about like, you know, being whole and perfection and wholesome and, you know, it’s like all of you, it’s, it’s about getting this like unity thing within yourself. 

Being willing to hold all these parts and be like, okay, they’re still part of me and they’re here for something. They’re not a mistake.  You get so much expansion because you’ve just unified all the parts, like, almost like that Japanese art of taking all the parts and putting them together with gold.

That’s what I feel like, I feel like it comes out to be this gorgeous vessel that can now hold so much more.  Yeah. So when I think as you were talking about the different parts of ourselves, another, this isn’t necessarily part of ourselves, but it’s all the different emotions that show up inside of us when we’re interacting with our husbands.

So sometimes hurt might show up, sometimes you know.  Anger might show up sometimes sadness might show up. And I, I was thinking about how each of those emotions as they land inside of us and we know how to process them, which is something I work with all the time with women, meet them, allow them, hold space for them bring kindness to them, how that very process expands us also as a human being and expands us as someone who can hold space for more of ourselves and have compassion and kindness and hold space for other people and all their parts and all their feelings.

So that was just what was showing up for me while you were, while you were talking about that. I love that. I love that you said other people also, because a lot of times we think that we’re expanding. As a selfish thing, you know, like, I want to grow, I want to expand, I want to hold more. And it sounds very selfish.

Like I, I, I, but in reality, when you expand, it’s contagious. Everyone around you starts to expand naturally, automatically without realizing. And  when you. Have the ability to hold more. You’re modeling. Everybody is starting to do it too, and that’s why you wanna get people who are ahead of you, to be around you, right?

You want to be amongst friends who are working towards growth because when one person’s growing, everyone is sort of following along. There’s this like nice natural flow towards where everyone is going. So. It’s not to say, you know, only hold on those things, but really  it’s an amazing thing. It’s an amazing thing I’ve seen just the way that in our marriage, when I’m growing, when I’m expanding, when I’m able to unhook from him and take ownership of my stuff, he suddenly has like so much expansion about like his, you know, obviously his Torah study in the things that he writes.

He’s, you know, coming out with books and, and has his thing. Like those are things that I really see a very direct correlation with the timeline of what work I did and what was, you know, sort of like parallel to my work. And of course with your kids you see it all the time too. Things that they felt very stuck on suddenly start to like wiggle out of it because there’s just this.

It’s, you know, cliche to say like the energetic shift or whatever, but there is something that allows for other people to expand because you suddenly know what it means. You like clicked into it.

  Hey, before we continue the episode, I want to ask you something. Are you ready to get answers from God directly, feel more in love with your husband and more supported than ever? Run the business of your dreams without having to sacrifice any other part of your life? That is exactly what my one-on-one private coaching is for, and I want to invite you, just you and me.

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 Yeah, I think what happens is that people  get very frustrated ’cause we can’t control the other person, whether it’s our husband, whether it’s our children, but when we can just turn inward, do our own work, and create that expansion inside of us, it sort of creates a safe space and a safe place for, you know, I think I one time heard Robinson Koski maybe saying like a table, a stable table for now our kids to, you know, put their puzzle on and their pieces to come together or our husbands.

So as we are creating that stability and that, you know, expansion and that just. Safety and clarity inside of us, it’s gonna lay the groundwork for everybody else to start doing their stuff on, you know, almost on top of it. So I do think that as women, and when we always talk about this idea of a woman being the akeres habayis, it’s not about telling our husbands to go out and learn.

And it’s not about, you know, telling our children what they should do always or what they shouldn’t do. I mean, children, it’s a little bit easier than husbands, but still it’s more about this idea of being that, holding that space where then other people can grow and expand on top of the space that we’ve created.

So, yeah.  Yeah,  totally. I we talked about a practical way to expand is really turning things around and taking ownership. Is there anything else that you could think of that somebody who’s listening can maybe like, try or.  Taste or think about that will get the ball rolling towards expansion.  Yeah.

So I mean, the other one that I already mentioned, which I’ll just bring up again, besides the turning things around and taking ownership like in Byron Katie’s work would be the meeting, the emotions and being able to really stop and say, I’m feeling this. And, you know, I allow myself to feel this.

I’m not gonna reject myself or judge myself for feeling it. I’m going to be with it and just watch it and observe it and be curious about it and be kind to it. I think that is a direct line for expansion. The other thing though that I would think about, and also when expansion and marriage came, you know, this was the other thought I had, was desires.

So I work really a lot with women in tuning in and being very connected and attuned. To what they want. And that’s whether what they want in their ideal marriage experience. So when I start working with a woman, I use a process called Contrast to Clarity, where we look at what’s not ideal in my marriage right now, and then whatever’s not ideal.

The flip side of that is, what do I want? So, right, they’re always two sides of the same coin, what I’m complaining about and what I want. So we use what is not ideal right now to what I want to look at, and then, you know, lean into what I want. And that sets the GPS really for our coaching together. And in that process, a woman is also stopping and connecting to her desires, first of all, in her marriage, but also then it just opens up to that whole concept of connecting to.

Who I am and what I want and what I yearn for and that I have seen with so many women as a direct pipeline for expansion because the way I look at desires is divinely inspired. They’re put in our heart by Hashem  as a way to lead us towards expansion. So if he’s gonna put into someone’s heart the desire to be a doctor or bring healing into the world, and that’s gonna create the new medicine or the new whatever that’s going to heal people, it’s gonna bring expansion in the world.

It’s also gonna bring expansion in my own life. When I have a desire and I can listen to it, not judge it, honor it, even if honoring it means I can’t make it happen right this minute, but I can listen closely to it and allow it to be there.  Be connected to it. Yes, I really do want this. I don’t know how to get there right now, but I really want it.

That’s, to me, a very huge step towards expansion.  I love it. I’m sitting here nodding, nodding, nodding, because I have the calm method, which is the, you know, four step method I created  creating flow.  And the first step is connect to yourself. What do you really want? And I think it’s such a prerequisite to anything else.

And just so you know, step two is ask for abundance. Bring God into it. And a lot of people think that’s the first step. People are like, okay, just go straight to God. What do you want from me? God, what is, what’s up with you? You are like, why? Why am I stuck here? What’s going on? Why’d you do this?

And that’s actually not the right attitude to be coming to God with. If you do the prerequisite work of what do I really want? You come to God and you’re like, okay.  I really want this. Does that line up with your will? Can you show me how to make it happen? Can you help me? Can you guide me? And now suddenly our conversation sounds completely different.

So even though we think, and we’ve been trained to just turn to God, if  you take those extra three minutes to think about what do you really want? And like you said, I love that you said your desire comes from Hashem, from the Divine  because. We think, oh, but you know, if I follow what I want, isn’t that selfish?

No,  you could tell a lot of people are very worried about looking selfish. Which I totally appreciate. But also I think if you have a question like that, it means that you’re not really getting it. Because anytime you think something is selfish, it’s actually the opposite. You are doing it because that’s what God put you here to do. 

Just like there is a mistaken humility,  right? Where it’s like false humility is like, oh, I can’t go out there and do the thing. Who, who do you think I am? Who do I think I am? It’s like, no, no, no, no. The most humble person we know is Moses.  He was the top prophet of all prophets. He did not go walking around saying like, who am I to be the leader and to be talking to God almost face to face, and you know, this and that and the other.

No, no, no, no. Actual humility, Nava is to know what you’re worth to know, what you need to do here and to start doing it, you know, and  the humility part is realizing that it has nothing to do with you. It’s all for God. So as soon as it’s, everything you’re doing is for God’s sake, then you’re totally aligned.

You have nothing to worry about.  And that’s, that’s, you know, something that I really  felt is important to how do you say  to. Specify maybe  to what? Define to, to specify. Yeah. Oh, specify. Yeah. It’s important to specify.  Yeah. Yeah. So those are all things that I feel like as women start out on their journeys towards, you know, whatever they’re working on, they’re coming in wanting their ideal marriage experience.

But as we start tapping into who am I? What do I want, and sometimes I’ll even just recommend women starting to keep lists of what do I, you know, if, if we’re starting at a more basic level of just what are my preferences? What do I like, what do I want, what, you know, we can go from very, very basic to then getting much bigger into those dreams.

But they’re all layers of a woman. Starting to connect to herself and it leads to incredible expansion for her. I love it. I love it. Everything you say, I’m like, yes, yes, yes. I’d love to hear more about how you got into this, like what things you studied or what led you to, ’cause we’re very aligned and I, I’m just really curious.

So yeah, I guess I would say it goes all the way back to me being like this very idealistic newlywed who got married, moved to Jerusalem and.  Thought like, okay, this is what I’ve been waiting for. Like, I’m this good girl from a good family, all primed to be good wife, good mother. Like this is what I wanna do.

My husband’s a great guy. He’s studying, you know, he’s gonna be a scholar a Talmid Chacha and I’m here to support him and help make that happen.  And then as you know, as we’re starting, I’m recognizing, wow, we’re not exactly the same. We’re a little different. We look at things differently.

We view things differently and we are different. And then a lot of the like lessons that I learned that I took in a very black and white way, like, you need to respect your husband. And all of a sudden I’m like, well, I’m better at this than him. That’s not called respect. So I’m failing at being a good wife and.

Just things like the less, the different things I’d heard and how I processed them they just weren’t sitting right. Like I wasn’t feeling good about who I was, who my husband was, how I was as a wife. And I was like, I gotta get to the bottom of this. I don’t do anything halfway. I gotta figure this out.

And so I just started exploring. I started taking classes reading books, learning everything I could about marriage. And I don’t think at that point I knew really how to, I think, like I said, I took authorities messages and process them in a black and white way. And it’s been like this huge journey for me of being able to sit with what resonates, what feels right for me, and trusting myself more and talk about expansion, finding my inner truth, my inner voice, all of that through all this learning. So I really went on a journey and had many, many, many teachers. The one who I actually certified eventually with as a coach was Dean of Friedman, who I had  learned from for, you know, I started with her parenting classes, I don’t know if this was 15, 16 years ago.

And then just continued as she went through the Demartini process. And I went and, you know, explored that. And then she taught, you know, different things. And then all along the way I just kept delving into whichever teachers like I had been exposed to from her, let’s say, like you said, Byron Katie.

So I got some exposure through her, and then I just went and dived, you know, into that. And I just kept, you know, kept learning and, then around six years ago was when I opened my own private coaching practice. I was a speech therapist at the time, but part of listening to my inner truth and my desires and expansion was me actually looking at I wanna manifest my ideal  mission, career, business.

 And this is what unfolded was me helping other women figure this out in their marriages. So it was something just really, really expansive as I kept journeying along to keep opening myself up to what am I really here to do?  I love it.  So beautiful. How did that affect your marriage?  How did that affect my marriage?

Me opening up my own business? Yeah.  So that’s interesting. For me, that was actually an easy part of my business journey and my marriage journey. Like my husband was really, really supportive. I think that I remember taking a walk with him and saying to him, and this was before I opened my business, I said, I have three dreams and I don’t know how to make them all work together.

And I think this is a common thing that women, you know, meet up with. And my three dreams were my own mission. Self-expression my own feeling purposeful in the work that I was doing. That was one. Another one was supporting my husband financially so he could continue learning and studying.

 And then eventually he actually became a teacher and tells Yeshiva and a Mahir and that was a dream of his and I wanted to continue supporting that dream. And then the third was being available and. Present for my children, and so I had this financial responsibility I had. My own internal satisfaction, meaning, and then being a mother and present and connected with my children.

And I did not know how to make all those work, but I remember having this conversation and saying like, these are my three dreams.  And that’s, you know, unbelievably what has manifested in my life at this point, which is so amazing because I can create my own schedule. I can be there for my kids when, you know, I used to be working on ti and as a speech therapist, and now I’m home and around and able to create that atmosphere in my home that I love.

So my husband really was really, really supportive along the entire way, and he has been my biggest backer. So for me that was an easy part of this, but what shows up for you and the women you work with in their marriages when they open their businesses?

Hmm.  Yeah, so it’s, it’s really interesting. I love that you said that there was, you know, the three things that had to sort of work together and felt like they were fighting each other. So that is a common theme and that’s something that I help with. A lot of times you can’t even imagine the options, you know, like, oh, I really love this, but I also love that and I really wanna do this.

And it’s like, what if you did this with these people and that, you know, it’s like, huh. Right. So those are the types of things that I love to do. ’cause I’m very creative and I’m, I, I think outside the box. And then it creates such awesome businesses, right? Because like, what we think is going to sell is not necessarily what actually sells and what actually sells is what people really want.

So it’s fun to be that, you know, from that business perspective.  I think that there’s.  A lot of men who are really supportive  until things don’t go the way they expected.  So wait, you’re not making money right away. What’s going on? Where is all that money you thought you were gonna make? Huh? You know, and so there starts to be a little bit of that financial burden of like uh, who’s in charge here?

Like, is it his responsibility to bring in the money or is it your responsibility? And if you took it on yourself to let him, you know, do his thing, then is it still his, even though you took it on, right? So like, this is a very common thing, especially amongst Jewish women, is who’s holding the ball, right?

Like in the katuba, in the, you know, the, the contract that we have when we get married, the husband is responsible for this, right? And this comes up a lot because a lot of women who I work with are obviously making money and sometimes more money than their husbands, and oftentimes more successful.

So like you said, how can I respect him if I know better? Right. So one of the things that comes up is the husbands starts to question what’s going on with the business, and he starts putting his nose into the numbers and he starts to like, you know, fiddle around. Not because he means bad, but because he’s responsible.

So he feels like he needs to know and he feels like he needs to hold it, right. So it’s sometimes we have to work through like the very fine lines or between the lines of who’s actually holding it on their shoulders and who’s actually just. Working and doing the thing. And then the other times is, you know, just like the unsolicited advice of like, oh, you should do it this way.

Oh, you should do it that way. You for sure should do it this way. And it’s like, who’s running the business? You know, who’s the CE who’s the founder? Who’s the, you know, who’s actually here? You know, I’m at the desk every single day. I know what I’m doing. Thank you very much. But having someone come and tell you things that, you know, make no sense  in the business world or make no sense in the digital business world, or make no sense with your ideal clients, and he thinks he knows.

So now there’s this like, how do I respectfully tell him he doesn’t know what he’s talking about? Right? Yeah. So that’s another thing. I’m trying to think of what else comes up, but, sometimes the husband feels defensive, you know, here’s like my wife making a lot more money or being a lot more successful.

Or when they walk into a party, it’s like, oh, you’re Mr. Her, you know? And it’s like instead of her being Mrs. Him, he becomes Mr. Her. And now it’s, you know, his friends say it as a joke or people who,  you know, recognize the two of them. They might not mean it, but it hurts his ego. It’s like, wait, wait, wait.

What just happened? You know, who flipped the chairs on me? And, and then they, they start to get very uncomfortable and they don’t know how to deal with this discomfort. It’s not something that they’ve been taught to do. I mean, all of us weren’t really taught to deal with discomfort. We’ve we’re, we’ve all been programmed to like wanna like run away from discomfort and be as far, far away as possible.

But really it’s something that as women, you can help him work through because you can realize he’s  not meaning badly. He’s a nice guy. He wants the best for you. He’s just feeling really uncomfortable with something.  And now how do you create the safety to make it more comfortable, to be uncomfortable and to talk about things that are coming up and to be there for each other.

And, you know, even though I make more money, you’re still the guy and you’re still my husband. And you still have your very, very important place. And it’s not a competition and it’s not a fight. We’re, you know, one time I told my husband, I’m like, I’m afraid to make more money because then you’re gonna be jealous.

And my husband said to me. Why would I be jealous? Your money is my money. You know, like to him there was zero jealousy, but for me, I was afraid. So when I opened it up and started a conversation, he was able to just like almost laugh in my face, be like, but I get to enjoy it. I would want you to get more money.

Like this is good for us as a couple, for you to make more money. And in my mind it was not, I was constantly in an inner conflict of like, I have this ceiling, I have to like stay under and I’m afraid, and I don’t know, and whatever. Even though, by the way, my ceiling was still higher than what he was making, but it was an inner thought that was holding me back.

So those are some examples of what goes on.  And I’ll tell you what, for the most part,  most husbands are very supportive, and yet they get on your nerves.  Like, there’s always like a thing, a husband, very little do. I see husbands who are like, I hate my wife’s job. I don’t know why she’s doing it, and she should just like, stop.

Right? Sometimes I see it with energy healers  because their husbands are like, that’s all, you know, nonsense. Or it’s witchcraft or, I don’t know what, like, you know, some very sweet husbands want the best for their wives and they’re afraid that she’s going in this like woo woo direction that they’re not really comfortable with. 

And even in those cases, we’ve been able to make peace with the fact that she was able to explain more of what she does. And she actually was, you know, instead of being defensive and taking it the wrong way, just being respectfully. You know informative, you know, a little bit more open about who she studied from, which rabbis are, you know, approving what she does, you know, who he could ask questions to, like just opening up the conversation a little bit more.

But really, as I said, I don’t work with the men and I don’t ever get to talk to the men. What I do is I help the wife approach the situation in a healthy way. So she’s gonna know what works for her husband. She’s going to know what she needs to say, what she needs to do, what, what is going to open up the conversation in a good way. 

And everybody is different. And that’s why it’s, you know, you said the self-trust is like gigantic is a huge thing.  Yeah, yeah,  yeah. So I’ve just been really, really lucky because in my marriage journey I did take total responsibility of finances from the beginning of my marriage just ’cause I thought that was part of me being a good wife so that my husband could, you know, study without anything else on his mind.

And over the years, you know, I think that was something maybe that was pushed a little bit by Laura Doyle. I’m not a Laura Doyle coach, but I’m very familiar with her work. And I think me recognizing that that was holding a huge stress, that really was too much for me, and it was something that my husband could provide by taking ownership of the finances and being responsible, even if I was the one bringing in the money, but he was still the one who had to meet the month and deal with the expenses and things like that.

That was a huge shift in my marriage when I was able to relinquish control of the finances, trust him to take over. And it’s something that I feel so, so blessed right now that even though, you know, I do run my business and I am a big part of that picture.  He’s taking the ownership of it and the responsibility and the stress falls on him and I’m free of it.

And it’s something huge that he provides for me. And so that’s exactly also, I find that I use my husband. Analytical brain a lot for making decisions. So instead of me having to be the CEO, you know, of like making all these money decisions about do I hire, do I delegate, do I this, do I that, you know, should I buy this course?

Should I join this program? I’m like, I just bring it to him. Here are the numbers, here’s what we need, here’s what I think needs to happen. You make the decision and it’s so amazing because my husband is a lot more chill than I am with money. I am so tight. Like, I don’t know, I can’t, it’s like so much money, you know?

And I’m working very, very much on that like flow and abundance and it comes naturally to an extent. But for him, he is on a, in my opinion, a much higher level of exclusive trust. Like.  A hundred percent Hashem. Hashem is the provider, and there is absolutely nothing missing ever in our lives, ever.

And I, I love tapping into that. And I remember those times when I didn’t tap into it because I was afraid to show him the numbers or I was afraid to ask him, or I was, you know, what does he know anyway, or whatever that I lost out on, on being able to be close to that, like really drink up from that very holy place of like, only God, you know?

And it’s really beautiful. It’s really beautiful and I, I’m very grateful. I’m very blessed to have that, you know, relationship. But I also think both of us are talking from a place of like obsession with marriage. And in order to get to the point we’re at, we did a lot of work that created that.

So like it wasn’t overnight that like, oh, I had a normal marriage and a normal business, and I sort of like made it work.  No, like we’re both very, very yeah.  Exceptional.  Yeah. No, and like I said, you know, there were many, many places in my marriage that I had to do a huge amount of work and that’s where I got to the place where I am and what, you know, how I can share.

It happens to be that just, you know, that particular question of how the business affected my marriage, that wasn’t one of my like, open spaces that pushed me, you know, to do a lot. That was one of the things that came easier for me. But there were plenty of other areas where there was judgment and there was resentment, and there was all these things that we talked about that I had to and hurt and that I had to go in and do my own work.

So, yeah. Yeah, it’s really fascinating. And at the end of the day, when you do the work, you do the work, you know?  Yeah. It doesn’t matter where it comes from. Sometimes people say like, there’s like these very scary things I don’t wanna face. They’re like, okay, so don’t face them. Let’s talk about your sister instead.

What does she bother you with? You know? And it’s like at the end of the day, the turnarounds are going to be the same because the lesson that you need to learn is the same. So I was like, my sister, oh, I’m really upset with her about this thing she did to me and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you’re like, oh wait, doesn’t that sound familiar?

It’s like the exact thing I’m upset with my husband about, but just, it’s just a little kinder. If you don’t feel like facing it from here, you’ll eventually reach it from somewhere else. And like, I really appreciate that you said that. Like the awareness that for me, it came from here for you. It came from there, but like we’re all doing the universal work, you know? 

Yeah. And even outside of marriage, it’s something that I’ve thought about a lot. Like when I say to one of the other coaches who I trained with and she focuses on emotional eating, or I talk to someone else, it’s like we’re all.  Here to do that work, to go on that healing journey, to go on that growth journey, to expand ourselves, to get to know ourselves, to connect to ourselves, to others, to hashem.

Like we’re all on that path. It’s just, we’re each gonna have different doors that will open that up for us. So for someone, it’s their relationship with food and that struggle that that, you know, is where they’re gonna have to start facing themselves and what’s going on with them. And for someone else, it might be a child that’s really, really struggling that’s gonna do that, and they’re gonna turn to a parenting coach or to a therapist that can help them with that and you know, point them in words.

We’re all really doing that same journey, we’re gonna just walk through different doors. So some people, their marriages will feel pretty easy and smooth and they’ll meet it somewhere else. And so whether it’s, like you said, coming in from different places in the marriage, it could be that, or it could be that, you know, marriage was my door, someone else has a different door.

And that’s, you know, but we’re all here to do that work. Yes. I love it.  I love it. You reminded me of someone who said their aliya journey was a perfect, you know, smooth sailing and everything just worked out so perfectly and I thought to myself, wow, that’s possible. You know, and, and, and same thing with, with, you know, any other example that you would give. 

Anything could be, you know, smooth sailing if you’re doing work in other areas. You know, and if, and, and by the way, if you’re not doing work, it will just keep coming up from every single angle. And that’s also why a lot of people say like, I don’t know where to start because my whole life is falling apart.

Start with your marriage because when your marriage is good, then your kids, it trickles down and it just sort of like works itself out. And so if you had a choice between working on your marriage or working on your children or parenting work on your marriage  and if it comes to working on yourself or working on your marriage, work on yourself.

’cause it will trickle down to your working on your marriage. Right.   It’s incredible how one thing can start  turning everything around.  Yeah. Yeah.  Wow. This was fascinating. I’m very happy with how this episode turned out. What is something that you can give our listeners for like, you know, the closing, putting it all together, something they can go out with? 

Yeah, I mean, I think it’s sort of the similar message that I started with is, I think so many people when they hit negative feelings in their marriage, they get scared. They just get so scared, like, is this ever gonna get better?  Am I always gonna feel hurt? Am I always gonna feel resentful? Is this marriage gonna last?

Is it gonna dissolve? Is it gonna always feel like I’m in distress? And I think for people to just know that it’s not gonna be like that forever if you look inside and, and do your work. It’s, it just won’t, it won’t because it’s just there to push you. So once you look inside and get whatever support you need to  move into growth mode from your marriage, like your normal, there’s nothing wrong with your husband.

There’s nothing wrong with you. Your marriage can be okay.  You can go in and do your work and it can really be okay. And your normal and distress is normal. It’s just a growth button. That’s all it is. And I think that change of framework can like, have the fear start seeping out and empower women to really make a change. 

Yeah.  Yeah. I really love it. And I appreciate the question that you asked about.  How do I deal with people who come in saying their husband is the problem?  Because it was a great question. You know, it got me thinking, which was really fun. ’cause not a lot of people get me thinking. I’m always thinking, but, you know, you have good questions.

 Yeah,  it’s, it’s fascinating. You know, today I was just driving and  I was talking to God and I was like, I know you want so much for me, and I know I should be there. But I am here, I’m exhausted, I’m drained. I feel like all of my, you know, schedule and my life has been like, completely messed up. And I don’t physically feel like I could be there.

Like I, I’m just stuck here. You know? Like there’s a gap between where I know I’m supposed to be and where I am. By the way, this is like classic, everyone is feeling this, especially in this season of life. Okay, so let’s all be there together. And then I realized,  oh, I think that the mistake here is that I think God wants me to be there, where in reality God actually wants me to be exactly where I am. 

And that while driving was the biggest mind blown moment ever, and I was just like, oh God. I’m exactly where you want me to be.  Oh, okay, now I can totally celebrate this. I was so happy from that moment, I was like, okay, that’s it. I’m ready. I’m done. I’m done complaining. I’m done feeling bad about myself.

I’m done like being in my pity party. It’s just like the whole thing just melted away when I realized I am just where I need to be. I’m supposed to be tired right now. It’s okay to be drained. Everybody’s going through this like holiday season thing. It’s fine. It’s gonna be okay and this too shall pass. 

Yeah. It’s a huge thing. It’s a huge thing I talk about all the time with my clients, about the fight we have with ourselves and where we are and not accepting the gap and all those Yeah. All really, it’s just as soon as we can stop the fighting of ourselves and accept where we are,  who we are, where God put us.

Then  most of the distress just sort of dissipates. It just flies away because it’s that that’s, we’re adding on top of everything that’s really causing so much of the distress. Yeah. So, yeah, I really appreciate what you’re saying. Thank you for sharing that.  Yeah.

Hmm.  It feels unrelated  now that I think of it, but I think somebody needs to hear it and apparently if I was led to say it, then it, it’s meant to be. So I feel like,  you know, now thinking back, the connection to being exactly where you are  and not judging it and thinking you’re supposed to be somewhere else, is the opening to expansion because you’re no longer in conflict with reality. 

Yeah.  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.  Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, this was fun. Okay, let’s hear. How can people get in touch with you, work with you, give you their money?  Yeah, so I have, my website is https://www.rivkegardner.com/.  So they can definitely find me there. And I offer, you know, different types of programs.

So I have something called the Marriage Transformation course, which is a six week course that’s self-study and can be done just and bought on my website. So that’s a great place just to start. It’s low cost, it’s, you know, an easy way to get started and these concepts can be a really great door and opening to transformation.

There’s also a way to book, if you’re interested in private coaching, to book a half an hour consult on my website where we can just meet, I can hear about people’s goals and. Here where they wanna be taken and see if we’re a good match. So that’s another option. I also have this great program coming up for mentors.

It’s the deeper mentorship marriage experience where I actually train other kallah teachers.   Rebbetzins coaches, therapists and mentors, leaders in the community  on how they can work with women to create these inner shifts. So I find so many women have, when they’ve come to me, they’ve gone to other people in the community and they get great. 

But the problem is, is there’s a gap between the advice, like you need to respect your husband and, well, I’m not feeling respect, so now I’m actually feeling worse than I started because not only do I know what I should be feeling, I’m not feeling it. So talk about accepting ourselves in that gap. And it’s just so I really help and take these women, these mentors through experiencing these tools and these shifts themselves so that they experience the power of it.

It’s an awesome program. It’s, you know, a smaller, intimate group where we meet weekly and I really walk the women through these and they can walk out and take this to the people that they’re serving in a totally different way. So that’s actually coming up in November. So again, on my website, they can find out more information about that or schedule a time to talk to me about it.

I’d be really excited to have people on with me there. That sounds amazing. I love it. Yeah, that’s very cool.  Yeah, you guys go check her out. She is really great. And as always, if you are interested in unraveling the overwhelm, I have a freebie on my website. Connected for real.com/guide is the guide to unravel overwhelm.

 And I look forward to seeing you guys in my email.  This has been so fun. I’m just like sitting here enjoying it. Yeah. Before you go back to the rest of your tasks and overwhelm and preemptive. Let’s just sit here for a while. The two of us. Yeah. Like, let’s take some deep breaths.

Enjoy life. I was gonna say actually that gratitude is a huge expander.  Yeah. So just like, as a side note, if you didn’t get anything else out of this, episode, have some gratitude because it opens doors. It’s very cool. You get to expand through that.  Yeah. Hmm.  Wow. This was fun.  Well, thank you very much for listening.

Thank you, Rivke, for being here. And don’t forget to be connected for real, and I’ll see you next time. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on, and have a wonderful, wonderful, blessed New Year.  Amen. Thank you.

 And that’s it! Thank you for listening to the very end. I would love if you can leave a review and subscribe to the podcast. Those are things that tell the algorithm this is a good podcast and make sure to suggest it to others. Wouldn’t it be amazing if more people became more connected for real?  And now take a moment and think of someone who might benefit from this episode. 

Can you share it with them?  I am Robinson Bat chen Grossman from  connectedforreal. com. Thank you so much for listening and don’t forget you can be connected for real.