181. The Importance of Boundaries in Business

Transcript:

  Welcome to the Connected For Real podcast. I’m Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business. And my mission is to bring God’s presence into your life, into your marriage and into your business. Let’s get started. 

 And we are  live. Welcome everyone to the Connected for Real podcast. I’m Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman. I’m a marriage coach for women in business, and this podcast is all about the four pillars. So God is at the core, marriage and business are the two main pillars that we touch on here. And you are the fourth pillar.

You’re the container holding all of the pieces on the parts. And today we’re talking about boundaries. So this whole month we’re talking about boundaries, and specifically today, boundaries and business. So we have Ashley with us, introduce yourself, and then we’ll get right into our topic. Sure. Hey, my name is Ashley Mikkelsen.

I am a Spanish teacher who is currently outta the classroom to be home with littles. And the thing that’s allowing me to do that is my business. So that’s where I’m coming from talking about business and boundaries, because if you are a person who works out of home, you know that boundaries are super important because those lines can get  fuzzy and confusing and odd, and making sure they are straight, clear boundaries is a lot healthier for you and everybody else around you. 

Yes. So what is your business exactly?  Sure I support secondary Spanish teachers specifically, but also world language teachers in general with ideas, lesson plans, resources, things that they can use or learn about using in their classrooms for, you know, helping their students acquire the language and reducing their stress levels and their prep time.

Because lots of times, world language teachers will have easily, at least four preps, sometimes eight, and that’s just a lot to do. So anything that I can do to help reduce that work time for them and that workload is what I love doing.  That is awesome. I love that. I love that. And I, you know, I was English second language when I came  to America, but Spanish was actually my second language that sounded so complicated.

I was born in Israel and my parents moved to Venezuela for four years to be teachers there, so I learned Spanish and I did. Preschool, first grade, second grade, and third grade and Spanish. And my whole basis is in Spanish. But then we moved and I had to go back to Hebrew, and so I like shifted everything.

And then two years later we moved to Argentina. So I had to do the, a whole other Spanish, which you know, is not the same Spanish. True. So I basically had to like, relearn Spanish.  And then in the middle of seventh grade going into eighth grade, we moved to Houston, Texas, in the United States. So then suddenly I had to do English  and then I did high school and English.

So when my teachers when I told them I English is actually my second language they were shocked because I picked it up to speak, but it took me a while to really catch up with all the other stuff.  And I totally get this whole like, learning a second language is a huge thing. It is, it’s a lot.

And sometimes in the US it is extra complicated with feelings about, you know, like you were talking about coming to the US and learning the new language or being in the US and do I learn another language and all of that, like those cultural pieces here can be really difficult to deal with sometimes. 

Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, just as a total like tangent before we get into boundaries  and business and all the fun things, learning another language opens you up to an entire new world because as soon as you speak the language, you get what they’re thinking. Like you actually understand the process behind what they’re saying. 

It just fascinates me. Yeah, I’m not gonna disagree with you. I think it’s an amazing opportunity for our brains on a, you know, like fundamental learning cognitive portion, but also for our hearts and how we are connecting and empathizing with those around us, because I think that there’s so much more we get when we’re understanding people on that level instead of them coming onto ours. 

Yeah. You know, I just had a good example that came up in the business Facebook group  that I’m part of. Somebody said, this is so awkward. She took a, a screenshot of her conversation with someone who was trying to work with her or get something with her, you know, with her business and the way that they started the conversation and the way that they were very blunt and she was just like, this is so awkward.

No boundaries. What are they thinking? And whatever. And she put it up on the group and.  After a bunch of people, you know, posted, you should block them, you should this, you should, that somebody chimed in and said, actually, if you look at where they’re coming from, like, you know, the number gave, you know, a, a country code. 

If you look at the country they’re coming from, this is actually really normal in that culture. And because I’m married to a person from that country, I know that this sounds completely normal and everybody’s just like, what?   Why would you say that? It’s outta boundaries. And she’s like, no, it’s actually not. 

You know, you’re welcome to block them, but just know, and I love that. That was such a good eye-opener. Just you’re, you know, because she’s married to someone, she has this culture merge and she was able to see into his culture and then see through. This conversation that actually there is no problem in the way that this person approached and you know, asked the question bluntly and did all these different things that aren’t accepted here.

But maybe are totally accepted there, and how awesome that she was willing to jump in and share that insight because somebody else might have seen it, might have understood what’s happening, and then just been like, eh, you know, and just let it ride. But to be able to step in and offer that insight as well is super helpful.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it was just for me as a bystander watching this conversation, you know, like on Facebook, you’re just like, pretty much there for the entertainment  popcorn and the feed.  I don’t, you know, I, it’s just, I don’t go on Facebook much because I feel like it’s, you know, it sucks my energy and my time, but I happen to be looking for something for my business stuff.

So I’m on this group and I’m seeing this happening. I’m like, wow, this is so interesting. And you see, like, it was perfect that I saw it because then a week later I’m sitting here talking about it with you. Yeah, so it was,  it was orchestrated by God. So yeah. So let’s get into boundaries now that we had that little intro. 

Okay. So talking about setting boundaries for your business specifically, I feel like is something that can be so  overwhelming, especially if you are a newer business owner or you’re just kind of getting into things. Because so often what I see happen and what I have experienced as well in the past is that feeling of  it’s all on me, right?

And when you have taken all of this on and you shoulder all this responsibility, you have to answer the emails. You’re the one creating the products. You’re the one doing customer service. You’re the one doing, you know, all of these things. Those lists just go on and on and on. And so when you get an email or you get a q and a at  whatever time of day or night you feel like you have to get up and answer. 

You know, and so that I feel like is kind of a stage everybody goes through. But when you start to  realize  that’s really not healthy, and how do I reset this boundary and reset kind of this divide between my work day and my personal day or my, you know, nine to five work workday, my personal day and my other project business day.

All of those sorts of things can kind of blend together. So how do you redraw those lines to set those boundaries based on where you are in your business and where you are in your life and where you are in everything else that you have going on, and how to handle that feeling like I’ve taken on this huge load. 

How do I set it aside? How do I get some help in shouldering the burden? And all of those sorts of things and boundaries is kind of the beginning of all of that.  Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it’s really interesting ’cause because  my podcast is structured in a way that there’s one topic per month, but there’s four episodes for that topic.

So there’s, you know, boundaries in God and boundaries in marriage and boundaries in business, which is this one. And then boundaries in you. So you can actually, if you’re listening through the podcast, you can go back two weeks and listen to Boundaries in God and really see, like we were talking about how we are limited because we are human, but God is not limited.

So when we.  Understand that there is something really powerful that happens because then you’re saying like, oh, I’m carrying it all on my shoulders and it’s all on me. And really it, you know, God is right here. He put you in this world. He gave you that desire to want to serve and help and, you know, do this specific business that you’re in because it lights you up.

 God did that on purpose, right? It’s like it’s not on, it’s not a mistake that you’re lit up by something and then every little thing that you are doing in order to serve the world, in order to serve God, in order to really light up, that is all part of serving God and, and God’s plan. So why not use that as your first support system?

You know, first, recognize that you’re not alone. You’re not doing this on your own, and you don’t have to carry it all. And I think that that boundary, just changing the narrative  about how I’m doing this business is the first step. It’s really, really fascinating how the  energy changes from having to be like, ugh, burden and heavy to like, okay, so if I’m doing this for God, then God is going to guide me and going to show me and, and things are going to start to really flow. 

Yeah, that lightning up really helps. And also just like feeling the call, so as you were saying, right, God gives us these gifts. God gives us these passions and these talents, and when you’re hearing that and following that, I think it all feels like less of a burden because you’re no you’re going in the right direction.

’cause you can feel that guidance. So that’s.  Yeah, it makes it a lot easier and a lot lighter. So just as we’re talking about  setting those boundaries, something that has helped me a lot is coming up with kind of confined windows of time and really  setting my to-do list in a more.  I wanna say controlled way, because otherwise I have found that I’m the person who’s like, oh, you can do this and you can do this and you can do this and you can do this and you can do this and you can do this.

And I mean, as a business owner, you know, there’s a thousand things, probably more than a thousand things you can add to your to-do list in your business as you’re  trying to create and grow and share and do all these things. And part of it is what we were just talking about is like, okay, stay focused on the plan and where you know you need to go.

And part of it is understanding that we are limited in the time that we have and energy and you know, all of those sorts of things. So how do I say, okay, I have this many hours in a day and I have this many hours in a day to work. And the other parts of my day, you know, whatever you’re gonna do with those.

But how do I look at the time that I have available for my business and say, okay, you might want to do all of these things, but not all of those things can fit into this block of time. So how can we take what’s all of these options are, prioritize them and put them into our workday and then our work week and then our month and right.

Sometimes some people like to do like a full year. I am not quite that  hands-on in my boundary setting a time blocking, but I do like to look out, you know, a month, maybe some quarters ahead of time and just say, okay,  you know, this thing is gonna be happening this year. How do we work backwards and how do we set some blocks of time so that way it’s not three in the morning on a Tuesday trying to do this thing.

Last minute. For this project that you knew was coming that you said you wanted to do.  Okay, but then you were doing all these other projects that you also felt like you wanted to do, right? So how do you really acknowledge and prioritize all of these different goals and then be realistic with the time that you have?

Because it’s easy. I mean, if maybe this is just a me thing, I’m very much like what? My husband would probably call me a workaholic some days because  I love what I do. I find so much joy in creating and in  discussing things with other teachers and, you know, sharing things that it’s really easy for me to be like, yep, I’m gonna be done in like five minutes.

Okay. And then 35 minutes later, I’m like, 

you know, and so finding ways to set those limitations.  Not because it’s something necessarily stressful to me, but because other parts of my life deserve that same energy and passion. And I do have, you know, obviously I have that for my family and I have that, but I find that I’m a person who gets really sucked into whatever I’m doing, especially when I’m feeling the joy.

So having those boundaries really helps me stay healthy there. Yes. So, so good, so good. I have a training called How to Stop Fighting with Your Husband about Your business, and we talk about that because I. The business is bringing you so much joy, it makes you feel so important. People actually care about what you’re saying, that it’s easy to get sucked in.

And then the biggest fights are about, you know, you’re working too hard, you’re working too much, you’re not giving enough time to the family, you’re not doing the things I have to, you know, pick up the slack.  And those are one of the biggest things that I hear from people.

 So it’s extremely important. You know, my husband when I go overtime  will say, what you did was, you gave them extra time by stealing time from us. And it’s such a powerful,  you know, wow, you’re right. You know, that’s a really good way to think about it. I basically moved the boundary from here to there, giving you

more time and then less, and, and just thinking about that, like, oh, you’re right. I really, I want to honor that. Not because, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of people have a hard time holding their own promises to themselves. And so they’ll put a boundary, but then they won’t keep it because that was just me.

Who cares. Right? But like, when you start to see the effects of your boundaries and the effects of what happens when they’re not held,  I think it’s easier to then, you know, move backwards and say like, okay, okay, okay. I really want to, yeah,  I want to honor them. Yeah. And honestly, so many times like, for my own family and my own relationships, it’s not coming from that feeling that like, you know, you’re stealing time from us kind of thing.

As much as I love that phrasing and that, I feel like that would really help my perspective.  It often comes from like a sense of worry and care from my spouse. It’s like, you know, sees it as you’re working really hard ’cause he doesn’t necessarily have experience in a job that has given him that same amount of joy and same depth of purpose necessarily.

And so understand  how I can accidentally work two more hours. You know, like that sort of thing. How does that happen? Well, I really love what I’m doing and I’m finding a lot of joy here. And from him it’s coming from, oh my gosh, I can’t believe you, you know, spent two more hours at work where work was not a thing that was  fulfilling or joyful or, you know, lightning his, his feelings.

So that kind of perspective too is just being aware and acknowledging that we have this different perspective on the role of work and how that has affected us personally. And seeing that and being able to say, oh, okay.  I do need to hold that boundary because when I wiggle the boundary, what do I do? I drop things that are good for my health.

Like if I don’t end my day, when I say I’m gonna end my day, I don’t do my workouts because I’ll skip my workout. So that way I can make dinner for my family and we can all eat dinner together, which is, you know, that’s good,  but then I didn’t do this thing to take care of my physical health, which is also showing that love for my family in a, you know, in a different way.

Right.  It’s such a powerful thing you just said.  I wanna  digest that a second, because even though it has less to do with the boundaries,  it does actually, and this may, you know, end up in like boundaries in marriage, but  the effect.  That thing that you said about, I am so lit up by my work that I can give an extra two hours of work, but my husband  does not have that.

And so he doesn’t really get it. And he starts to, you know, sort of question. But, you know, in my experience before I became a marriage coach, of course, and now my, my life is perfect, my experience is also my husband wasn’t finding that joy and that, you know, he, he was sort of like doing the thing. And so you almost feel guilty to share that you’re having such a good time because they’re not, and so then it starts getting into this, like, I have to lower the volume on myself.

I have to like hide  that it’s too exciting. I have to, you know, walk on eggshells not to hurt your feelings. And I hear that also from, you know, other people.  So it was interesting to hear that from your perspective and what you were saying that like.  Wow. It, it, it wasn’t something I thought about. 

Yeah. And it, I mean it really wasn’t. It’s just, I think that’s part of marriage in general is understanding, like we all have different backgrounds and experiences and even if you’ve been together for 20, 30, 40, 50 years, there are still gonna be times where you have to stop and look at that other person’s perspective from their point of view and say, oh,  you are saying it like this because you would experience two hours added onto your workday as absolutely exhausting, miserable, you know, like you would just say, Nope, I’m coming back tomorrow.

Whereas like, this is something that I’ve found a lot of happiness in. So that’s, you know, just being aware of that change. And then also, so just so we’re going back to those boundaries. Something else that I have noticed as challenging in some ways is the presence of that mini computer in our pocket.

So many of us carry around on a smartphone because right, you might leave the office or you might leave your work setting wherever that is, and whatever that looks like for you. And you step out the door and then you sit down at the table, or you sit down on the couch and you pull out your phone and you’re back to work because whatever, you know, an email popped up, a notification popped up, social media’s on, or, you know, all of every, everything that can be contained.

And that little rectangular prism,  prism, prism. Anyway,  that is that whole other boundary setting because you can, oh, I’ll just do this thing really quick. It’ll take me five minutes. Well, five minutes here, five minutes there, five minutes, you know, all over the place. All of a sudden it’s three hours and you check your screen time report when it comes in, and you go, oh. 

Oh,  you know? Yeah. Also, what does that do to the attention, right? Because when you’re, when you’re constantly going back to your phone to just look at what they responded and, and then respond back, and then leave a message and then da, da, da, it, it does not actually create quality time. You know, people whose love language is quality time will tell you that the most important thing is to put away your phone.

Like, if you really want me to feel loved,  put away a phone  in a different room,  don’t even have the ability to go to it to touch it.  You know, don’t even check it. Just be with me right here. And it could be five minutes of that quality time is worth millions for people who really get filled up by quality time.

And if people aren’t. That if that’s not their language, they’re like, what’s the big deal? You could have had the same five minutes between, between calls, you know, like  Yeah, that’s not the same. Yeah, yeah, but it’s not the same. Uh, A study performed that I thought was really interesting from a parent perspective, but also from a teacher perspective.

So as we’re talking about boundaries and phones, it was a study done on the effects of parent screen time while children are present and how that affects their emotional regulation and their connections to you. And it, you know, I’m sure that you can guess the result of the study was parents being involved on their screens caused emotional dysregulation and like just distress.

Honestly, one of the, like I watched a clip of one of them and it was like the baby showed such distress. And it wasn’t even a 1-year-old, like it was just, ugh. Oh my goodness. And so seeing how that played out in those little humans and how you can see, okay, that doesn’t stop when we get older, when we see somebody who is here instead of here, that does make a big difference too.

So having  boundaries around your business practices, not only on like when you’re at work physically, but also when you carry workout with you in that little device, what kind of boundaries have you set in place for yourself there? Like, you know, creating for social media, responding to comments, responding to emails.

All of those kinds of things are things that you need to set strong, strong curtains around, because it’s so easy to just be like, oh, it’s just a second. Oh, it’s just, you know, however many,  so I was at a, in a lecture. And was it last week or two weeks ago? I can’t remember  where  she started her lecture by saying, who here has WhatsApp business?

And a lot of people raised their hand. You know, WhatsApp has WhatsApp regular and WhatsApp business. Mm-hmm. And she says, who here has WhatsApp regular?  And you know, some people raise their hand and she’s like, who has both?  And I was sitting here going, what? Why would you have both? Like your phone  forces you to choose one and like if you have the other one, it just messes it all.

And it’s like, no, no, no. That’s the secret.  You get both with two different numbers and you have the business number and  your regular number and you only open business during business hours you know, like it shuts down. And I was like, you can do that. You can separate  what the, because honestly, I would get a new phone number just for school stuff.

Like I have, thank God. Eight kids and every single one has at least five groups because they have the group with this teacher and the group with the school and the announcements group and the, don’t forget this group and  ah, and let’s buy presents for the teacher’s group and the group with the teacher and group without the teacher and the afterschool program. 

And oh my gosh, I am drowning in groups, drowning. So I wish if I had to just do anything, I would separate all of my, like parent life into a different WhatsApp  and then leave my  everything the way. It’s like, fine, don’t worry about it. Like I feel so crowded by all these groups and, and then, you know, thank God they came up with this like archive.

So I started archiving a lot of the things that had to do with kids and that’s how I separated for now. But I am like this close to taking her advice and figuring out how to.  Separate because I really want to serve my clients in the best way. And I think they get lost in the shuffle  especially now with all the announcements.

 It’s been insane.  It’s absolutely crazy. It’s just too much. And I, I don’t know about you, but I’m a person who, when I see multiple notifications pop up, I tend to get overwhelmed and then anxious, and then I don’t even deal with them. Like I found myself the other day Googling like, how can I  reset, like message notifications on my phone because I have so many unread text messages that I, and they’re like, they’re friends, they’re family, they’re people that I want to talk to, but I’m so done.

You know, like I’m just done with my phone at the end of the day.  And I’m like, oh my gosh, I have almost 200 messages from people I have not read and I should deal with, but I can’t, I, I just can’t scroll that far back anymore and I don’t know how to tell people that. So finding ways to set stronger boundaries around my work time with my phone  allows more space for those personal things that you do wanna open up for, you know, so that way you have that space and time when you’re talking about separating those things because. 

And that’s intense because she actually walks around with two phones. When she’s at work, she puts her home phone away and when she’s at home, she puts her work phone away. And that’s a very strong boundary that she has and that she found works for her. I personally don’t even want my one phone, so I’m not sure I want to, you know,  I understand that.

Yep. You’re like, this one thing is plenty. Thank you. Yeah. Or people who have gone back to the dumb phones or whatever, that’s super tempting, you know? But again, there’s the whole business side of it, and I could see that being the case for personal and business, right? As having a smart business phone so you can do all of the marketing things and then a dumb home phone, so that way you’re not distracted by all those other things when you’re home and. 

Hopefully unplugged if that’s, you know, how you wanna spend your home time. Yeah. You know, we were just at parent-teacher conference and we spoke to the principal  and high school girls on phones. Not a good thing. Right? It’s, it’s very hard to see that. They’ve created a system where the teachers are sending messages, the girls are going to miss real important information if they don’t have a phone, if they’re not connected to WhatsApp.

And we said to him like, what is going on? What do we do? You know, we’re the parents, we’re the principals. Like, we’re the teachers? What is going on with the system? Why are we allowing this? And he says, we haven’t figured out what to do yet. And I’m like, well, we can’t take that long to figure it out. It’s been here for a while.

It’s not like the phone  came out yesterday, you know.  It’s like, what do we do? And he says, I myself don’t have WhatsApp. I’m like, that’s very nice. But you’re running a school where every single girl’s walking around with WhatsApp in her phone and they’re in groups together. They’re, you know, talking about things.

They’re bringing up emotions. They’re, you know, hurting each other’s feelings. Like there’s a lot going on on a phone and you can’t do anything about it.  So, and my school feels the same way. There, there are so many issues with phone usage as a personal item, but it’s being used to affect those relationships and emotions that are happening within our students while they’re at school.

And so school is having a really hard time dealing with these things because they don’t have access to the phones, but they’re kind of forced to deal with the outcomes that are happening and, you know, as parents are too. But just like seeing all that North Dakota actually, so I live in North Dakota and our state just, it started developing a bill to require all districts to have some sort of cell phone ban policy in place. And so I’m hopeful there was a lot more pushback on it that I thought there would be, but I’m hopeful that something positive comes of that. ’cause I’ve seen what you’re talking about, like as a teacher on that side of it is like kids feel like they have to have one because their coaches are using them to communicate and then they’re, you know, some teachers are using them for projects in class or they, which like,  obviously there are good things that can come from this, but when you’re getting into all of those other things just for these itty bitty little good components, it’s like, mm, it’s not. 

I don’t know that it’s worth trading the sanity here. Yeah. You know, also, this isn’t my first one in high school  each one went to a different high school, so fun, fun for me. You know, I was just imagining like all the parent teacher conferences and all the locations and all usually on the same day, which happened to us today, it’s like driving from one place to the other.

 And it’s interesting to see how each school dealt with the, you know, with the phones. So the two other schools, like my two other girls, they have these lockers, like these locked lockers and it’s  in the offices. And so you have to come in the morning, give in your phone, go into class, and you don’t have your phone between classes and you only come get it when it’s lunchtime  or when the day is over. 

And  it was so good. And then this school doesn’t have that. And they have a locker  next to each class and they’re supposed to put it in the locker and they go to it between each class. But between classes is the most magical time.  And I like really, I, the difference, I was just saying at this lecture I was at, right where she talked about her, her awesome boundary that she created for herself.

She also talked about not working on Friday, which was like a big thing for her because most of the people who worked in her industry work on Friday. And when she had little kids, she was like, I’m not working on Friday. That’s my boundary. And it was really interesting how she communicated that.

Anyway, that was really fun. So in this lecture I had this aha moment that I. The lecture itself was amazing and like totally worth every second and every penny. It was like, wow, blow my mind. Just the, her energy, the things she was saying, the boundaries she was teaching, like the confidence she was giving people.

It was amazing. But beyond that, it was the in-person aspect that we actually got to all be together in one room and hear each other’s answers and and have that experience. And then beyond that was the after party. You know, when everybody started going home and you start talking to people and, oh, who are you?

What do you do? I heard you say this in the class, you know, tell me more about that. And the interactions that happened afterwards of just people standing around and wasting another whole hour just chat. Like, I came home so late that night. I’m like, what happened? You know, the lecture was from only like eight to 10.

How am I home at midnight? You know, like, that doesn’t make any sense  because I got sucked into like that social,  I haven’t been in that environment for so long because of zoom. Yeah,  it’s such a pleasure. So can you imagine taking that away from the girls, like those times between classes for me and high school, that was when things happened.

Yeah. That was when the connections happened. That’s when you make up, you know, the homework between classes. That’s when you could like, you know, grab something to eat and not to check your phone. It sucks your entire being.  It’s so I am really, really hopeful for, yeah, positive change. And  like you were saying, so I watched the news release from the governor who was speaking and he was like, it has taken us way too long to get to this point because these were rolled out in what, 2008 I think is what he was saying was the first iPhone.

And I mean, really you think about it, okay, it is 2025  and here we are fighting to figure out what to do with them. So yeah, it’s, I mean it’s also nice to know like it’s not just us dealing with those boundaries, but at the same time, our kids shouldn’t have to be dealing with them the same way that adults are struggling to figure out how to set those boundaries.

Right. If a fully formed  feels silly to say that my adult brain is fully formed, because some days it does not feel like it is  looking at those kid brains who like really we know are not done developing yet. Okay. If we struggle as adults to set those boundaries and separate ourselves, how are they supposed to be able to do that?

You know, they’re just  not ready in so many ways to deal with all these other things. So helping them set those boundaries is so, so, so important, I guess. Yeah, and you know, I think this, you know, we’re, we got into like a whole rant phone, so to wrap it up, I think the most important thing is what you said before is the modeling  and being able to disconnect in order to help your kids learn to disconnect.

Because if they see that you are not even capable, then like, what does this mean about me? You know, and how does that communicate to them? Yep.  Yeah, there’s, so we’re  in the middle of Lenten season, so something that I have done the last few years and I’m doing again this year is, is kind of like a reset those boundaries with my phone focus and just finding more ways and more times to set that aside and just recognizing that, you know, how those moments just kind of happen in your brain where all this, and you’re like, oh, I’m just gonna check my phone.

Because you don’t even realize that you’re just happening. And so part of this process is being aware of those moments and recognizing those times and then choosing to, you know, spend that time and that focus and that energy in another way. So just as we’re talking about setting those boundaries, this is the time of year where. 

I have been using it to reset that boundary a little bit because it does kind of sneak back in over the year as I’m not, you know, making that as big of a focus or, you know, summer happens and I become a lot more relaxed about things and  yeah. So it’s just nice to have that time to dedicate the focus back to that boundary again.

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  Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I’m thinking of like boundaries in other ways in the business and like, you know, in this lecture it was all about the first interaction with a potential client and being able to  be very clear about your boundaries right up front so they can choose if they wanna work with you or not, without having to get all muddy afterwards.

Like, oh, but I, I don’t work on Fridays. Well I hired you because Friday was my day off and I wanted to only work on Fridays. Right. It is like, there is situations that could get really sticky if you’re not upfront about what matters to you and what is the way you work. And so  I really enjoyed  that angle that you brought in of like, what are your boundaries and please communicate them as soon as possible.

You know, like this is your first interaction with any potential buyer.  I want to hear what is the most important boundaries and how you’re going to say them. And that really brought up a lot of thought, you know, what are the things that you should tell your clients right up front?  That’s really interesting.

So I  have a kind of a different approach actually. So, and my friend and I, she is actually a coach that I’ve worked with to have kind of labeled this as like.  A, you know, stick your flag in the sand kind of moment versus  going along the path and reading the sign and going, oh, you know, and kinda what you’re saying.

So like, do they have to get down your funnel before they know this is how you handle things? Or are they gonna read the sign before they open the door and go into the funnel? That was all sorts of weird analogy, but hopefully you understood funnel path, doors,  all sorts of different things.  I dunno,  that gets tricky.

So the way that I tend to handle things is less of a waving the flag kind of in front and more of just a fact of life of who I am and how I do things and how I serve. Just because  in so many of the things that I create, ’cause I don’t work one-on-one with clients necessarily.

I tend to serve in terms of like digital products and digital downloads or, you know, creating videos with instruction and that kind of thing. So my personal beliefs don’t always necessarily affect the content that I’m creating in a way that like if you download it, it’s full of faith. You know, like, and they can’t use it in their public school classrooms, and you’re like, well, that’s not necessarily happening.

Okay. However, there are things that I do that I’ve created that are  focused on faith and are focused on things that you would use in a private school setting and not a public school setting. And those are a lot more like what you were saying is like before they ever click download, when they get to this page, it says very clearly like, this is not for a public school setting.

It would not be appropriate there to be using this. And there are times and places where you can teach about these kinds of faith and cultural aspects from a cultural perspective. And those things are over there. So if you wanted to go over there, go ahead. But if you’re here for teaching about this culture and custom from a perspective of faith,  come on in.

’cause that’s right here for you. And that is something that I am so excited to share with you and trying to make sure that that’s really clearly labeled because there are people who need either or, or sometimes both.  And how do you make that super clear that this is the kind of resource you’re going to get when you open it up?

So they’re going, oh, I know.  I love that. I love that. I think that’s really very kind and very clear. You know, clear as kind like uh, Brene Brown says, I agree with you. I agree with you. I think that  just.  Being able to pick up something and say, this is solving my problem. This is exactly what I need. You don’t have to be all in their face about something that isn’t relevant, but when it is relevant, it needs to be clear right up front because I don’t want somebody to go in waste all this time and energy and then get annoyed that they got the wrong thing and then even if they get their money back, there’s still like a bad taste in their mouth, right?

It’s like, this isn’t what I came here for. And, and it’s, it’s a very important thing to be extremely clear upfront about, which I really, that’s really great. I love that. It helps a lot. And I think the other thing that I find is a good way to kind of share those personal boundaries that you have or those.

Personal,  you know, and people call them like your brand voice or your,  brand personality. And I was just kind of like, well, it, it’s just, it is who I am. Not so much the brand personality, but like when you’re working with Ashley, when you’re talking to me and you’re getting to know me, there are times where I will do coaching or speaking or that sort of stuff.

And  that is where God often comes into things is if they’re asking me personally for advice on something, God is gonna be part of that because.  He is everything, you know, so when they’re asking about personal advice or personal information, that boundary to me does not exist because that perspective is so important that leaving it out just doesn’t work.

You know, it doesn’t work for me. So that, that in another way comes out a lot into the point of where like, you know, if you’re  watching my content or seeing things, you’re gonna figure that out pretty quickly, even if it’s not labeled in front right then and there, you know?  Yeah,  yeah. No, I really, I really love that.

You know, it was funny ’cause the whole way I got here to what I’m doing is I was listening to podcasts where they kept saying like, you know, God or the universe or whatever you believe in. And it made me like you just did roll my eyes and like, ah,  you know,  I was like, what is this? Like why are you trying to apologize? 

I do not have,  I don’t know the people who are, yeah, send me good vibes or pray for me, whatever it is. No, I want you to pray for me. Keep those vibes to yourself. Vibes do nothing. You have no power. Like I don’t care what wiggly, magical fingers you think you can send my way. If it’s not tied to a prayer, it is pointless.

I, I’m sorry. You found a, you found a soapbox for me  because Yes, exactly what you’re talking about. Like whatever you believe in and like  there is a point where you’re being respectful for others’ beliefs and that’s fine. Right. There’s, I think that’s kind of a, a fine line here.  And so like, I don’t wanna come across and or communicate that like. 

Obviously yes. I respect that you are allowed to have other beliefs. Totally fine. If I post something saying, you know, I’m struggling with this, please pray for me. And somebody comes sending you good vibes.  No thank you. Like,  I dunno, just,  I dunno. I don’t know. Oh, it’s so, it’s so funny. It’s so funny. Anyway, I was, I was, this is exactly what I was complaining to you about with to my sister.

And she said, so why don’t you start a podcast and be like, hi guys, this is all, you know all about God. I am going to tell you that I believe in God. Like be very upfront. And I was like, no way. I can’t do that. You know, like, what podcast is gonna be successful if I tell them  right up front that I believe in God and she’s like.

Whatcha talking about? It’s like, and now I have a successful podcast and it’s all about God and how we can bring God into every aspect of our lives. It’s like such a fun thing to do. And I think  it’s that lack of boundaries, right? Like God is in everything I do. There is no place where God is not. So I’m not gonna do a podcast if I have to leave him out.

It’s just not gonna work. It’s not gonna be me. It’s not gonna be successful. It’s not gonna be anything. So it’s such a, such an interesting, point of awareness.  What are, what are some boundaries that, you know, from maybe a different angle that a person running a business  maybe bumping into people who are trying to  get as much as possible from this thing  that they.

Purchased or this coaching experience or you know, whatever service that they’re being given,  what things do you see come up where maybe they are trying to like take over or, you know, sort of spill over into  parts that you weren’t intending to give? Yeah. Where it’s kind of like you’ve crossed the line into taking advantage of this.

Right. Something that I find really helpful is to have an upsell available and sometimes it feels like that’s one of those things where we struggle because our hearts are of service and we’re here to help. And  that’s how they got here in the first place is because you have something and you know you can help them with it and great.

They grabbed this thing. Well, and then they’ve realized that, you know, maybe they needed more help or now they’re onto a different step of the problem or that kind of thing. And if you’re having that conversation with them and they’re, you know, maybe tugging a little bit more than, you know, it’s nice to say, oh, okay, well I am so glad that this thing was helpful for you.

It sounds as if you need  this thing that whatever it is, you know, maybe it’s another course, maybe it’s your one-to-one like membership or coaching offer or something like that.  Okay, here is where you can go for that.  Or you know, Hey, you’re asking me a lot of questions about this. Here’s my fact page, here’s my blog where I share tons of information.

You know, it’s really easy to offer that as an alternative so that way, because I know my own heart has a really hard time just being like, go away. ’cause I don’t wanna do that. You know. That’s not a good boundary for me to set. My boundary is. Wow, you really need help. Look at all of these ways. I am helping.

I am helping you. It’s not the way that you’re hoping for. I’m not gonna hold your hand and walk you across the street. You’re a big girl. But I will open up the Google for you and show you what to type. You know, like that kind of thing. To be able to offer this instead is so helpful. And, you know, maybe just depending on the situation that you’re describing, sometimes they’re already over here and they’re already in your one-to-one coaching and they’re still pushing in.

Then sometimes it just comes to this health piece, right? While I really am so glad that you’re loving our time together when we’re, you know, doing our coaching session or whatever and it’s spilling over into other text messages or emails or, you know, adding you on socials or that sort of stuff, like anything like that.

I love that you are really getting a lot out of this.  I don’t use these areas for that, right? So if somebody is adding you on Facebook and you don’t use Facebook for business stuff, oh yeah. If you’re on there, I’m not gonna get back to you. It’s just not gonna happen. And if they message you,  okay, that’s not your problem.

They can’t listen and follow directions at some point in time. Grown up, septic grown up and figured that out, you know, like, okay, or whatever. That boundary is just very clearly and politely and kindly saying.  Hey, this coaching package includes this, this, this, and this. It does not include 24 7 access to me. 

It just doesn’t. Right? You know, and just saying something as clear as that, and if it continues to happen after, if you’ve reset that boundary, you can kind of do two things, right? You can say, anytime something happens over here that’s outside of the boundary, you can ignore it if that’s fine for you and your  mental space.

Sometimes we can just ignore things, and if it’s getting to the point where it’s just like, I can’t handle it and I can’t ignore it, then you can end this coaching relationship. You know, say like, Hey,  I’ve reminded you of this boundary. You’ve ignored it here, here, here, here, and here at this date. Our relationship is over because I have given you this expectation.

I’ve given you these boundaries, and you’re not respecting my boundaries. So we’re done.  And you know, honestly like that is something that as a parent with small children, as a teacher with high school children, as you know a human, you need to be able to say no and then hold that boundary no matter what the situation is, and know that that is healthy for them and healthy for you.

That we need those boundaries and those guidelines.  Yeah. Yeah. I love that you’re saying  make the boundary  and then keep to it.  And I wanna remind everyone listening that if you put down a boundary and then not end up holding it, you are doing yourself a bigger disservice than not putting the boundary down at all. 

And  that’s huge. Yes.  You know that that woman that said she doesn’t work on Fridays, I. She says, can you imagine if somebody sends me a message on Friday and I answer it just because, oh, I’m right here. Anyway, I’ll answer it then. What does that tell this potential client? That she doesn’t keep her promises that she is not in alignment with herself.

She does not actually do what she says she will do. So why would he wanna work with me?  It just makes, it, honestly, just makes me think of a small child, like when you’re like,  don’t do this or this will happen, and then you don’t follow through. Like you can’t do that if you, you know, like want to parent this child as, so when I was younger, I coached gymnastics for many, many, many, many years, and I will never forget there was a relationship where it was consistently like.

Mom set boundary, 3-year-old jumped boundary and mom was like, oh,  it’s fine. And it was just not fine. Like it was just not a fine, healthy, I mean, and of course I only saw them for like 50 minutes once a week. So obviously my 16-year-old perspective is a little, you know, and I wasn’t a parent at the time, so take all that with a grain of salt.

But just seeing that consistently happen and go, no wonder I can’t get her to sit down on a dot. And she freaks out when I force her to sit down on the dot, because we’re listening and following directions right now because she doesn’t know what boundaries are. And she doesn’t understand that when an adult, an adult I was 16, tells her to do with something she needs to do.

The thing is because as soon as she’s out in the rest of her life, there’s no follow through here, there’s no boundary setting. And then. You know, following that expectation. So it was just like,  oh, you’re gonna be a nightmare to work with, kind of thing. And that’s the same thing, like if you set that boundary with your client and wiggle it around, your client’s gonna go, eh,  boundaries,  you know? 

Yeah. You know when you’re talking, I’m thinking of the park, you know, as a mother, you take your kids to the park a lot. And I used to do this a lot more when I had like the four youngest.  I lived in the park because it’s like, this is where they’re playing nicely and this is where I could feed them, you know, while they’re playing and just like shove fruits in their mouth.

’cause this is all we have is fruit, you know, there’s no junk food. And it was just like such a great way to pass the time until supper. Anyway, I love the park and I go less now because thank God my kids are.  Older and younger, like whatever. I have all the ages, so they take care of each other and they sort of just like thrive at home.

They’re, we’re in a different season, but at the park you have these mothers who, you know, the kid who’s misbehaving and  hitting everybody and throwing rocks and doing all these crazy things. And then the mother is like, that’s it. If you don’t stop, we’re leaving. And you see she’s talking to her best  and they never leave.

And she’s like, no talking like deep, meaningful conversation with your best friend here on the, you know, on the little park bench. And you’re not actually leaving. He knows you’re not. Why would you say it? Oh, that drives me crazy. Yeah, don’t set the boundary that you’re not gonna follow because then they know you’re not following the boundary anyways.

They learn fast. And so do potential clients or current clients, right? Like all of these people in your, your boundary setting areas will learn,  oh, that boundary means nothing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. She says, you know, in the lecture she was like, you have these people who have  an automatic thing that says, I only answer messages between nine and 6:00 PM and like, don’t expect a message from me if you sent it any other time.

And so you send something at 10:00 PM thinking like, okay, whatever. She’ll see it in the morning and then like they respond right away and you’re like,  why did you bother turning that on? Yeah.  Why do you have an automatic messenger if it doesn’t even say anything?  Oh, it’s hard. Yeah. Setting those boundaries and keeping to those boundaries is more important than ever bothering to set them in the first place.

Like if you’re not gonna stick to the boundaries you’ve set for yourself, don’t bother but  caveat. Sometimes there are times where you say, you know, I’m gonna do these boundaries. And then you’re in a different stage of life and you realize that the boundaries that you were set for yourself two years ago are no longer working for you, and you need to change them.

That’s fine. Right? Like that’s totally fine to change the boundaries that you’ve put in place out of a place of reflection and growth, but changing them because you’re like, oh, I need to do this thing  that’s different.  Yeah. You know, you’re reminding me, I’m gonna say it in Hebrew, but I’m going to translate it.

My father always said,  which is the mouth that made it not allowed is the mouth. That’s, that’s going to be the only one that’s going to be able to allow it. So let’s say, you know, my father is the one who said, no, we’re not eating ice cream right now. And then he changes his mind. He’s allowed to say, you know what, yeah.

You know, I’ve decided we’re gonna eat ice cream and it’s totally fine. But if I said no, and then somebody else comes and says, yes, no. So you have to remember, you know, that doesn’t happen like that. And what you just said now was so powerful. You have different seasons in your life and something that worked for you then is not necessarily what’s going to work for you.

Now, if this lady had young kids and she wasn’t working Fridays, and she kept that boundary because, hey, it’s fun. I don’t have to work Friday, so I’m not going to, but now my kids are grown and I don’t care and blah, blah blah. So, okay, that’s over there.  Her boundary is still, I don’t work Fridays. But then when I texted her and she answered back on Friday, I knew that she was in a different state of  life, but she didn’t actually bother to update anybody else because she was sort of like, ah, who cares?

They’re not bothering me on Friday, so I’m not gonna change it. Like in her mind, it wasn’t as read of a boundary anymore.  Yeah. And that, I mean, makes so much sense because there are so many seasons that we go through and there’s so many spaces where, you know, maybe you don’t want to work as much or you don’t have to work as much, or you have little ones that need you or you know, you are not feeling well.

All of those sorts, you know, any of those sorts of things can be reasons for your boundaries to shift. And there’s no rule that says you have to set these boundaries and stick to them forever. Right. And that’s, I would say, is the exact opposite of what a boundary is useful for, honestly.  Right.

Yeah. Yeah. So like on one hand we’re saying set the boundary and then hold to it. On the other hand we’re saying set boundary and know that you’re the one who said it. Yes. You’re the one who said it. There was once a really great podcast I listened to I don’t remember his name. Something about Dr.

Pizza or something, I can’t remember. He is like an artist and he gave himself this name. Because his mother always wanted him to be a doctor and he, he’s an artist like funny. He’s hysterical. Anyway,  I lost track ’cause I haven’t heard him for a long time. But like, I used to know this really well. He said that the way he figured out how to work in his business and actually get things done was he thought about rules for himself in his business.

And then  he basically wrote them down and then when people said things to him,  he would answer back, oh, I have a rule that I don’t work past nine. And it was easier to keep because it was an external rule, even though he’s the one who said it.  And people respect it more because they’re like, oh, it’s a rule.

So yeah, it’s a rule. We follow rules. Yes,  we follow rules. We follow rules. I dunno. Yeah,  you’d have to talk to the person who made that rule, but it wasn’t, you know,  it’s just a subconscious thing that when you say, oh, I have a rule. I don’t do podcasts on whatevers, or I have a rule that we don’t do that around here.

Oh, okay, fine. No problem. There’s almost never pushback when you say it’s an actual rule, but when you’re like, oh, I have this like thing, I don’t like it. No, it’s so mushy. It’s like, it’s just a rule.  There’s a rule.  Mm-hmm.  Yeah.  Or like, you know, I was working with someone and they said.  The way I do it is you pay half upfront and half at the end, and that’s how it works.

 And  the other person was like, wait, so what about if we wanna do it a different way? Like, nope, this is, this is my rule, this is how I do it. And that confidence is so awesome. Yes. Yes. Even just being on the buying side, you are like, oh, they know what they’re doing. They know what to expect.

They can pace themself because they have created rules that work for them.  It helps a lot. It does. And like you were saying, is just having that statement in place as a firm statement as opposed to being like, oh, well I usually only work till nine. And they’re like, well,  usually, you know, there’s wiggle room there as opposed to saying, oh no, I’m done working at nine. 

Right.  Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it brings me back to the phone for a second because there are ways to make your phone shut off  all capacity. You know, past nine or past 10 there is a really cool like sleep mode. Did you know about that? It just makes you unable to go into these things unless you disable it, which is very easy, very annoyingly easy, but at least it makes you stop and think.

Yeah, like, do I have to do this thing or Yeah. I do actually have sleep mode turned on my phone.  Yeah. A few exceptions for like, you know, if this person calls me then whatever. That kind of stuff, but Right. I find it really helpful.  Yeah. So I have it also Sabbath mode, which it basically like shuts down Friday afternoon even before Sabbath starts.

Like, ah, I’m already  checked out, not here. And. It turns a different color, it  gets rid of all the apps. There’s basically just like emergency only type, type of setting,  and it is so cool. So cool. That’s awesome. Just like being able, like we’re talking about all these ways that technology is like annoying and stressful, right?

But just being able to know that there’s also these other cool things about, it’s just so nice because you’re like, yeah, okay.  Yeah, yeah. My father always says if something’s a tool, then you have to learn how to use it properly. And  there is plenty to Google and how to use your phone to your advantage and how to be the master over it and not the other way around. 

Very cool. This has been such a fun conversation. I’m sitting here going, oh my gosh, we have so much more to talk about. But we are at time and I love keeping boundaries and I told my husband 10 o’clock, so that is exactly now. I’m very happy that we brought it all full circle and really talked about all the different aspects of boundaries and business and how they all affect how you show up and how people perceive you and, and really wanna work with you when you know what you’re, what you’re here to do.

Yeah.  Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. This was really fun. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you for the listeners. Make sure you come back for another amazing episode next week, and don’t forget to be connected for real.

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