111. Finding True Happiness in Marriage

Chana Schmell has worked as an educator, doula, and a coach. She specializes in identifying specific tools that individual requires and then guides them to their desired goals. Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman is a marriage coach for women in business. In her LIVE show and the “Connected For Real” Podcast, she interviews amazing women to enhance all the parts of our life: Specifically the four pillars: G-d, Marriage, Business, & You. Together they will talk about happiness in times of transition.


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Welcome to the Connected For Real podcast. I’m Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman, a marriage coach for women in business. And my mission is to bring God’s presence into your life, into your marriage and into your business. Let’s get started.

 And we are live. Welcome everyone to the connected for real podcast. I’m Rebbetzin Bat-Chen Grossman and I am a marriage coach for women in business. That means that I am at that intersection where your business and your marriage are pulling you apart. And it shouldn’t be that way. It should just flow together and support each other because everything is for The same reason you are here to serve God.

Right? And so your marriage is here to serve God. Your business is here to serve God. And that’s the only way that you can really find alignment and make them flow and balance. So that’s what I’m all about. And today with me is Hannah Schmel. She is going to introduce herself in just a second, but I just want to tell you the topic today is happiness and marriage.

And I think this is fascinating and we’re going to get right into it. Okay. So with all that introduction, Chana Schmell, introduce yourself. Thank you so much. And thanks for having me today. I’m really happy to be here. I’m a life coach. I work with women and teens and most of my clients are coming in with low self confidence or depression, emotional overwhelm, fears.

And I work with them to help them find confidence. clarity and ultimately joy in their lives and ability to make choices. So yes, happiness in marriage is definitely one of those things that I work with regularly. I said, I’m happy to be here. Let’s talk about it. Happiness in marriage. Let, let’s talk about it.

I’m loving this energy. Okay. So first thing is we are in the month of happiness. It’s the focus. It’s what we are all striving to have in our lives, right? We just want to be joyful. We want to be happy. You know, one of the things is like I say to people, what do you really want? And they say, I don’t, I just don’t want this.

You know, and I’m like, no, no, no. What do you want? Right. So don’t tell me what you don’t want. Tell me what you do want. And most of us just want to be happy. We want to be joyful. We want to, you know, live our lives. We, we want to feel fulfillment. Like all these things are all so intertwined with, you know, those emotions that feel good.

And a lot of times we have a hard time getting there because it’s not. naturally easy to access. So I am excited because Hannah is really practical and we’re going to get really into the practicality of how to, how to make it work. So let’s get into it. So first thing is what are the biggest obstacles in marriage to happiness?

Okay. So first of all, I want to pick up on what you just said that you know, we say we don’t want what we have. We want something else. And we don’t know what that is. And even when we say we want happiness or we want joy, it’s not clear what that really means to us. And it, it often means something different every day of the week and definitely to each person.

And so part of the things that we do in life coaching is not, it’s It’s not just words. It’s very holistic. So, okay, well, what does happiness feel like to you? What’s the experience of it when you can experience it? Well, then you can achieve it also if you have the right tools. So there’s a very important awareness to have.

You say you don’t want this. You want that. But what is it that you really want? And trying to clarify that, having the clarity about it. I love that. I love that you guys get specific about what it means and what it looks like, because when you can see it, then you can believe it and then you can go for it.

And then you can have it. That’s so powerful. Absolutely. With the right tools, which are so critical. Knowing what it is, having a very clear picture and having the right tools to get there. And, but in answer to your question about what are the biggest challenges to happiness and marriage, marriage in general, I mean, it’s one of the best parties in the world, but it’s also one of the most challenging to create.

Marriage is a continuous transition. If we think about starting a new job. Having a new home, having a baby, right? All those big changes in our lives they throw us They kind of shake the earth underneath us, but we know how to prepare for them. In general, even the change of seasons, right?

It does throw us off a little bit in general. We know how to deal with them. Marriage. We kind of look like at, as okay, this is the new status quo and, and it’s, and it’s all good, but it’s not the trick with marriage. I’m going to give you an example from a Mongo. Therapy. If you’ve heard of Harville Hendricks and Helen Hunt, and they give a beautiful imagery of a river and they talk about communication, but there’s a river.

Now, imagine you’re sitting on one bank of the river and you know, you put your fingers in and you make a little bit of a ripple and you watch that ripple as it goes into the middle of the river and maybe it reaches the other side and rebounds, but it’s a Your ripples. It’s your waves and you’re creating it and you can also expect it back.

So that’s life in general. There are moves. There are waves, but you sort of know what to expect as the change goes. Now imagine there’s someone on the other, the opposite bank, and that person is receiving every wave that you’re sending in their direction. And they might be prepared for the waves you’re sending, the ripples that you’re sending.

They may not be. They might be sending their own. You might be sending at the same time and they’re crashing together. You might be sending a really big wave. It goes over their bank and they’re not thrilled about it and vice versa. Right? That’s a marriage. That’s when the two of you are constantly creating ripples, and the other one doesn’t necessarily know what’s coming when.

Any relationship, truthfully, is like that. But marriage is so much more intense, and so much more intimate. And so, really, understanding transitions, and how to strengthen ourselves during times of transition, is the key to having a strong and a happy marriage. Yes, I love that you’re saying it’s a bunch of transitions just sort of, you know, strung together because it’s one of those things that you think, okay, fine, I’m finally gotten used to this and then it changes, right?

And it’s like, it never stays the same because we’re always growing and they’re always growing and we’re always developing and they’re always developing and then life changes and then the babies and the kids and the grownup and you know, all of the things that are happening around where there’s constant change.

So in reality, it’s not getting used to a specific situation. It’s more getting used to the fact that things are going to constantly be adjusting and changing and transitioning. And how do we deal with that? Which is like, I’ve never thought of this way before. And I think it makes so much sense because that’s, that’s really what we’re dealing with.

It’s also the beauty of it. I mean, of course we’re all going to grow and change. We want to develop. That’s how we serve the world. That’s how we do what we’re supposed to be doing in this place. If we’re continuously growing, we wouldn’t want to remain stagnant, right? The constant imagery of the bird who stops flapping his wings will fall.

Well, that’s who we are. We have to continuously move forward. Otherwise we become stagnant and life is very boring. And, and that leads to depression ultimately. And so we do, we do want that change and that growth. It’s what makes life beautiful. It’s what makes us beautiful. And it’s what makes our marriage beautiful.

And with that, we have to realize that it’s not only us, it’s someone right next to us who’s constantly changing at the same time. And we need to work at it. It’s a constant, continual transition. That’s, which is scary. Which is scary. It is scary. And yet, when we’re aware of it, awareness is half the battle.

When we’re aware of it, and we have the tools to deal with it, to strengthen us and strengthen the marriage, then we can be awesome at it. Oh, yes. Oh my gosh. Let’s talk about those tools. Because We all want to be awesome at it. I know, I know I’m not, you know, I’m not being selfish here and trying to get some tools out of you, but it sounds really exciting to know how to deal with this constant transition.

Right. It’s like, it’s, it’s a funny concept because we’re saying it’s always, but it’s never right. It’s constantly changing. It’s, it’s just fascinating. So let’s get into some practicalities. Okay. I love this part. I love tools. They’re amazing. I love that. That’s why you’re here. I called you here for a good reason.

I do. I love, I had a, I had a wonderful young woman client yesterday who she had come back for her third session and she says, you know why I love this? Because you give me something to do, and then it works. And I see the change, and life is better. Again, with teenagers, this is a younger woman, and just, she’s seeing changes in her life.

It’s beautiful, it’s beautiful. So tools, practical, implementable tools that we can all do. Some with guidance, some just, you know, on your own. So here we go at tool number one, really off the top of my head, if we’re thinking about happiness. The first step is positivity or what we might look at as gratitude.

And this is really just on your own within the marriage. Okay. The most basic it’s, it’s a choice almost, right? You want to be happy. Okay. So choose to be happy. You can’t look at all the bad and be in the good. So that’s a nice Phraseology, right? Okay, see the cup half full, right? People tell us all the time, how do we do that?

How do we actually see the cup half full? The simplest way to do that is a journaling. You know, people don’t like to journal always. It’s awkward. It’s weird. Okay. At the end of your day, at the end of your day, write one word, two words that answer any of the following questions. One, what am I grateful for today?

What are you grateful for today? I am grateful that the internet is working. I’m grateful that I have no echo and that I can hear you perfectly. I am grateful that I am alive. I’m grateful that the sun is shining. Oh, I can go on forever because I love being grateful. Okay, so you would have an easy time journaling.

That would be great. And the truth is you don’t even have to write it down. What? I have a whole, I have a whole journaling training in my program because I love journaling and I feel like it is such an amazing tool and you should know that I never really enjoyed it that much until I committed. to coaching because I felt like if I’m going to pay this much money for coaching, I better get the most out of it.

So I documented my entire journey through the coaching process and that helped me, you know, sort of get it all out on paper. And Can you imagine? Now I’m on journal number 14. Like I’ve never stopped. You’re amazing. So you’re great at journaling.

Some people aren’t, and that’s okay. You can write one or two words. You can record yourself. You can draw if you’re more into artistry. It doesn’t matter. The idea is that you go through a process once a day and you say, what am I grateful for? You don’t like that word. What am I grateful for? Okay. Maybe in marriage, let’s be specific in marriage, you’re having issues with your spouse.

Okay, so pause for a minute and look at what’s positive in your spouse. This might be hard at times. We go through transitions. We go through times where we’re ready to kill them. That’s okay. That’s legitimate. That happens. But if you can pause and find one thing. That you like about the other person.

If you’re a parent and you do this with your kids, especially your teenagers who are driving you crazy, same idea. At the end of the day, pause and say, okay, what’s that one thing? One word, one word. As you go on each day, it becomes a lot easier. All of a sudden you’re grateful for a lot more things.

All of a sudden you see so many positives and that’s practicing. That’s implementing, seeing the cup half full. That is growing muscle. Let me tell you, it’s exactly what it is, right? Because what we’re doing here is Our brain is wired to find all the wrong things. Like what’s going wrong because it needs to protect us and its job is to make sure that we’re alive and that we’re well and that we’re, you know, not in danger.

So what happens when you’re looking for danger, you’re looking for the things that are wrong. You’re not looking for, Oh, how? Oh, the sun is shining and everything is great. And oh, happens to be there’s an animal right here and it’s getting closer, right? Like, no, no, no, no, no. Your brain is going to ignore the sun, ignore the beautiful green grass.

It’s ignoring everything good because it needs to hyper focus on this one thing that it considers danger. Now, thank God. We’re not walking around with lions around, right? But our brain is wired to do that. So it’s constantly going to look for What’s not okay? What’s not working? And then your brain has gone blank.

because it is programmed to hyper focus on only what’s going wrong. And this is a muscle that we have to step into because we get to be intentional and say, okay, now I’m going to open up a little bit, you know, I’m going to relax the whole hyper focus thing and just be willing to see one thing that is good.

And this is a great great exercise to do, by the way, with older teenagers or young women or young young people in general, if you have a teacher, principal, boss, coworker, somebody who is around you and is like, Oh, I can’t stand that. Or like always out to get me. There’s you know, this negativity going on is like, can you see one thing that they’re good at?

It has nothing to do with you. But they just happen to be really organized or they happen to do this one thing well and whatever it is right and focus on that very, very soon. You’re going to see so much about your relationship, the way that you interact, the way that they react back to you changes because you were able to see past all the negativity.

Absolutely. And that’s what we’re talking about. It’s taking one tiny step when we talk about habit forming any type of habit forming and you can change habits as deeply as ingrained as they are. You can change habits. We’re always talking about what’s the one tiny, teeniest, most minuscule step that you can do.

And then you build from there. And you’re also talking about neuropsychology, essentially, you say, okay, well, ancient man, which is sitting back here in the back of your brain, right? And what we call the amygdala is always on fight, fight and freeze always, right? Because it’s scared of the bear that’s coming out of the forest, but we don’t, we don’t live there anymore.

We live in the front part of our brain. That’s where we make decisions, right? That’s where we can create focus. Okay. We live in the prefrontal cortex, right? If we want to be scientific about it. And sometimes, okay. Or, or very often the natural process, like you’re saying, is sitting over here. And think about it.

If, if the weight of your brain is all of your, you’re sort of being pulled all the time. You’re being pulled back. You don’t want to be there. You want to be centered here. And yes, little minuscule, tiny steps train our brain to work differently. Right? We send on different neurons, different neural pathways so that we work differently.

That’s exactly how it works. Absolutely. I love it. Okay, so ask yourself one, just for one or two words every night, what am I grateful for? What is actually going right? Find evidence for one good thing. Absolutely. Absolutely. So that’s, that’s one so easy. And yes, sometimes it’s a little awkward to get started, but such an easy thing that we can do the other thing.

And this is true, particularly for women. And I would say this is true, particularly for women who are keeping the laws of family purity. And you’ll understand why I say that in a moment. But when we talk about self love, I want to differentiate between self love and self care. Self care is eating properly, drinking properly, those are important, right?

Sleep, movement, those are important for our general well being. All human beings have those needs and we need to take care of ourselves. But there’s something that we call self love. There is a basic need for physical touch. We forget about that. But we have a basic need for physical touch and a lot of times we’re running around crazy and we don’t stop.

We don’t pause to get that type of support, that emotional strength especially right women who are keeping Tara Mishpacha and then there, we’re talking about transitions. So their cycle is a constant transition of separation and union, physical. only physical, physical separation and union. And so there’s always a time in the month where the woman is not getting that physical, and the man, but they’re not getting that physical touch that they need.

It’s a basic human need. And so stopping and either one giving it to yourself or asking a friend for that physical touch and giving it to yourself or those who are watching is very simply hugging yourself. Just hug yourself. Even squeeze. Okay, really hold yourself for a minute and feel the touch that you’re giving to yourself and feel the touch that you’re receiving back.

So you can definitely give it to yourself that self love and you can ask a friend, okay? Delegate a friend. When I need. Give me the hug and vice versa. Oh, you should all have a friend who loves giving hugs, right? It just feels so good to see them in the street and like, everything has to stop.

’cause I need a hug right now because she knows how to give a hug, right? And you, no words, there’s no words necessary. It’s just, I need a hug. We understood each other. Eye contact finish done. And you, you, you feel that need and it’s such a basic need. What do you do with the, I have a teenager who really doesn’t like to be touched.

You got, you come to give her a hug or you say like, you know, and she already sees you coming.

So teenagers are tricky. Teenagers are going through a whole different gamut of transitions of their own. We never want to force. type of definitely physical contact on any human being. And when we do try to force that physical contact and that human being, we’re essentially pushing them farther apart, whether it’s physical contact or emotional contact, et cetera.

And as parents, we’re moving out of the marriage and into parenting for a moment. But as parents, very often we have this need to give right? Always give, to always be there. Sometimes, especially with teenagers, sometimes the best thing, absolutely the best thing for your teenager is to take a step away.

They know you are there, show your support, right? Tell them you love them, tell them you’re there for them, but take a step back and allow them to become the responsible, independent adults. That they are. I love that. I had I had the podcast recording with Tepora Wayne yesterday, but it’s not coming out for a while.

If you’re listening to the podcast, you’re like, Oh good. Let me go back and listen to that. Nope. It’s coming soon. Okay. But anyway, that one was parenting and God, and we were talking about give them the space and the grace, right? There is, there is something so needed in that. In that grace and space of just allowing someone to become themselves without having the pressure of needing to fill whatever role you need for them to fill.

So I love that we, we, we slipped into parenting a little bit, which is totally cool. Let’s bring it back to marriage because there are couples, you know And the five love languages you take the quiz and touch is one of the five love languages Some people are really low in touch. I have one couple.

I know who They are both really not into physical touch. They’re more words of affirmation, quality time, acts of service. And they’re fine with it. Right. They’re like running their lives, doing their thing, but they both say it’s so silly, it feels awkward because they’re not like every other couple they, they, they have their physical touch, but it’s not the same.

Because they’re aware of their, you know different levels. Now, that’s very nice, because they’re both low, but what happens when one is high and one is low? What happens when you’re naturally not as touchy, or naturally very, very touchy? Right? There can be a little bit of a conflict there. It’s a beautiful question.

Absolutely. And it really brings me into into the next tool I really wanted to talk about, which is communication. And that’s a huge topic, but I want to make it very, very specific. But in terms of what you’re asking communication works. when you know what you need. So if you know that you are missing something, right, then you ask for it.

So you start with, what is it that I need? Okay. And what it is that I need, maybe touch, maybe something along those lines, but it also might be, I need you to fold that pile of laundry. Which, which sometimes they don’t see, right? But I need you to hold that pile of laundry, okay? That’s asking for what you need.

That’s an awareness, right? Being aware of it and then verbalizing it. Voicing it so someone else can say, It’s okay if your partner, if your spouse is not into touch. Okay, but it’s something that you need and exactly like you were giving you were giving the example of the laundry and I’m like, wait, wait, wait, do you need him to fold the laundry and put it away?

Or do you need the laundry to be folded and put away? Right? And that’s the big differentiator because do I specifically need you to do it, or does it just have to be done? Because, very easily, the guy could just call up a cleaning lady, or some teenager, who wants to make some extra money, and be in charge of folding laundry and putting it away, right?

And you could solve a lot of problems this way! Absolutely. Absolutely. I have a need. This is my need. And you can ask for help. We’re going into a million different topics. Each one of these is a whole podcast of its own. But asking for help, right? You are allowed. You must ask, and I don’t like to say that very often, to tell people what to do.

I don’t believe that people have choices. But turning to your husband or your partner and saying, I need help with this. Please help me with this. Even this is how I see it working, right? My solution in my head is that you’re folding the laundry. Okay. And then he has every right to respond and say, actually, do you mind if I bring in a teenager?

Okay. But we’ve just had a conversation. Okay. One person has expressed their need, even given a suggestion. And the other person has responded with a different suggestion. And we come to a conclusion and that’s a conversation.

  Hey, before we continue the episode, I want to ask you something. Are you ready to get answers from God directly? Feel more in love with your husband and more supported than ever? Run the business of your dreams without having to sacrifice any other part of your life? That is exactly what my one on one private coaching is for and I want to invite you, just you and me, For a free deep dive discovery call.

This is a 60 minute free call where I ask you lots of questions And we extract the three main things that are holding you back I then put together a personalized plan for you where I create a roadmap of recommendations With practical steps the call is free and so valuable in itself. So go book yours today Now back to the show

 So let’s talk about really conversation or what I like to call invested conversation, because that’s really the key.

If you want to talk about not the individual, right. Who’s recognizing positivity and gratitude or is providing themselves with self love, but we were talking about the relationship here. When we talk about the relationship, invested conversation is probably the easiest and Most important tool that you will ever have?

I highly recommend. It happens once a day. I realize life is funny and challenging. It doesn’t necessarily, but, but at least once a week. At least once a week. I love, I love how she called life. Funny, funny.

Yeah. Listen, it’s, you know, you plan to talk to your husband once day, but you know, who knows? You know what, I’ll pause and tell you a story before we get to communication, invested conversation, but there’s one day, and I remember distinctly, we were going into the elevator me and some of my kids, and I turned to them, I said, okay guys, plan B, we had just run back to the house, we had forgotten something, we were off schedule, and I’m like, okay, plan B, right, you revise the day, and my son looks at me and he says, Ima, I think we’re on plan D.

But that awareness, right? Just like when I plugged in the computer now, that awareness of things change and you gotta go with the flow. You have to move along with it. If you try to stay where you are, you’re sitting at that river as the waves are bouncing against you. They’re crashing against you and you’re getting hurt.

It’s very uncomfortable. You’re getting knocked down. If you’re going with those ripples, with the waves, then you’ll survive. Then you can be happy. So invested conversation, let’s do it, let’s do it. We’re going with the flow here. Invested conversation. It really requires three points to understand invested conversation a, we’re going to define it. So that means we’re going to give it a time. We’re going to give it a place we’re even going to give it. A definition of, of space, I would say, so there’s no phones allowed, no kids allowed, right? No other distractions. This point in time is for invested conversation between the couple and no one else and nothing else is allowed to step in.

Okay, so that’s point number one before we even talk about. Yes. You said a lot of things there. Let’s just, you know, no phones, man. No phones. How does one live without their phone Right here next to them? It’s the source of life. I’m kidding. I’m totally kidding. But subconsciously because of the gamification of the phones and the way that we are so attached to them, I was once in a.

You know, we were every so often they have these really fun activities for kids where they bring the past into the parks, right? Like the Nashville park. And they have all these players playing old fashioned people and, you know, telling about the history. It was very fun. And one of these guys so funny.

And he’s talking about what happened here a thousand years ago and you know how it was and whatever. And then suddenly he looks, you over there, why are you petting that thing? You know? And, and he’s like, what? He’s like, you seem to be They’re like petting your box, you know, and everybody was just cracking up, but he made it so clear that we look like such weirdos, but we got so used to it.

And that attachment is very difficult to break. Right? So when you’re asking for no phone time, that’s a big ask right there. You know, and it is. And I’m asking that you make a choice. And when you make a choice, you have to remember always when you say yes to one thing, you’re saying no to another.

When you say no to one thing, you’re saying yes to the other. And right now the question is, are you willing to invest in your marriage? Are you willing to invest In the conversation, which is going to strengthen your marriage and provide a happy marriage, which means a happy you. Is that something you’re willing to invest in?

Now, if you say yes. If you say yes, then yes, it means that for the one hour, you’re saying no to your phone. She just said one hour, you guys. I’m thinking 10 minute conversation. Okay. I’m like, okay, I can give up my phone for 10 minutes. She says an hour. I’m sorry. I’m having an hour. Not a net hour. It’s a gross.

Okay. Habits. Habits. Start tiny. Start with five minutes. You know, I’m going with the flow here and I’m being very cute about it, but I just think that we have to also realize what’s going on behind the scenes because you’re asking me, say yes to your marriage, therefore say no to the phone.

And I’m thinking, well, the phone came to Almost distract me from the pain of the marriage, right? Like the pain of the lack of connection, the pain of not having whatever. So I just distract myself and I turn to this device that makes it all better. Now, of course it doesn’t make it all better.

And I am conscious and can tell you that it is a total illusion, but for a listener sitting there going, okay, like, It’s nice that Chana Schmell has all these great tips, but this one just feels like non doable, right? And the previous ones, yeah, I could be grateful, one or two words a day. I mean, it sounds small, it sounds, you know, something that I could joke about.

I can do it, but here you’re telling me, disconnect. And I’m like, taking a deep breath, right? For all of us, a collective deep breath. Absolutely. And you’re right. And, and let’s put this in perspective for a moment. I am, I am throwing it almost a bombshell and I hear you. I agree with that. And yes, start small.

And yes, sometimes. tools as implementable as they are, need a little guidance along the way. And truthfully, that’s what coaching is all about. So when I sit with my clients, right, I will apply, I will tailor the tool specifically to their needs and depending on what they’re coming in with, that’s the tool I’m going to give them.

And there might be women out there, listeners who are saying, you’re nuts. Okay. Then this is not for you. And that’s okay. Okay. This is not for you, or maybe this is for you, but it needs to be adjusted a little bit. Maybe it’s writing notes to each other once a day. Maybe it’s at the end of the day saying good night or in the morning saying good morning.

Maybe that’s where some of your listeners are at, right? So it’s hard because we have so many people listening today to know exactly where everybody is sitting and what everybody needs to receive right now. Yeah, I think also being able to push back on you like this, which is so fun, by the way I’m having so much fun being devil’s advocate, but I think that when I’m putting it out there and I’m, I’m communicating the thoughts that may be going on behind the scenes, because when you hear them, then you can laugh at them and be like, seriously, I’m putting the phone before my family.

I’m putting this device before my, intentional choices. Like this. Once I hear it this way, like once I’m able to see it, right, this is very much goes back to that journaling, right? When I write something down, I write it down the way it’s coming out of my brain, completely unfiltered. And then I look back and I’m like, really, that’s what I’m thinking.

That’s terrible. That’s crazy. I mean, this, this is a complete, you know, I don’t want that. And then it makes me your first thoughts, but those are your first thoughts. I’m totally cool with that. That’s it. They’re the truest. They come from your gut. They’re automatic. But I think that once you can see them and take them out of you, then you can make a decision, a conscious decision.

Like, are these serving me or are they, you know, are they actually protecting me? Are they doing their job right? Is my phone actually distracting me and keeping me safe? No, it’s not. Right. And so by saying all the things and giving them the voice of, Hey, devil’s advocate here. I don’t want to give up my phone.

I don’t want to give up my hour. I don’t want to, you know, do this thing. It’s too hard. It’s too complicated, right? That baby ish voice inside my head. that is telling me resistance, no, hello, is actually really important to listen to because then I can, I can see what’s going on behind the scenes and I can make a conscious decision about what do I want, not what do I default do, right?

That’s what we call wave high, say goodbye. When a thought or an emotion comes up you stop and you look at it, you say hi to it. Okay, so that resistance or sometimes it’s fear or anger that comes up, stop and look at say hi. Hello. How you doing? Little fear over there.

And then you have a choice. You can accept it. You can pull it in. You can use it. You can say, I’m not interested. You’re not really protecting me. I’m not really interested in you being here. And you share it away. Say wave goodbye. That’s it. Say hi, wave goodbye. And go back to what we were talking about.

And we said that the no phones, you know what, let’s take the other example. I said, no distractions. Part of that is no phones. And part of that was no kids. So if you’re married with kids, right, listeners round, right. And that’s almost a little easier to relate to you say, but no kids, but, but I’m a parent and I have to be there for my child 24 seven.

I always have to be, I’m going to say no to my kids. So obviously you’re never going to say no, but sometimes you are going to say no to your kids. And that’s healthy for you and healthy for them. You’re teaching them healthy boundaries. You’re teaching them what a healthy marriage is based on. You’re teaching them so much by saying, Mom and Dad are having their private conversation now.

You’re teaching them about, about time for yourself. They need to appreciate that, especially in today’s day and age. with phones and screens all the time. Yes. Okay. Let’s talk about this private conversation because the reason why all of the resistance and all of the alarms are going off in the back of the mind are because We don’t know what that looks like in there.

We’re afraid of what’s going to happen behind closed doors. We are not comfortable with the whole concept of, you know, having to face something that maybe in the past didn’t go so well, or maybe, you know, maybe it has a connotation of being Bad news, right? Like we’re going behind closed doors because we have to talk about something that’s very serious and is going to cause, you know, multitudes of scary things to come up.

If that’s what’s going on in the belief system, when somebody says we need to start having more private conversations, the first thing that could come up is what? You know, why? What’s wrong? Right? So, so, and I think that this is something very normal and natural. And our listeners may be finding that, you know, this is, this is, a gold mine just for us bringing all these things up, right?

Because it’s allowing them to go through the process vicariously through us. For sure. And notice how we’re talking about such serious topics and we’ve touched upon a number of serious topics while we’re, we’re laughing and making light of it. Which is the absolute healthiest way to deal with these things.

And so, so introducing it is not necessarily we need to have more one on one conversations. But, but perhaps, it’s, it’s coming from self. I feel like I’d like to spend more time together. Sounds a little different and everyone has to find their own terminology. But even, you know, behind closed doors, as you were describing it, when we set a time and we set a place.

Maybe this is a cup of coffee, out. Maybe this is going for a walk. There’s all sorts of ways of conversing and actually going for a walk is what my husband and I love to do. That’s our easiest. We find that conversation flows so much more when we’re walking. Yes, I can totally second that.

And then all of a sudden those, those challenging conversations, seem to go a lot better. And we do a lot of not challenging conversations, but those challenging conversations go a lot better. There’s something else going on that enables that flow of communication. But yes, like you said, let’s talk about what that actually looks like.

So we said invested communication has three elements. One is that definition, which we’ve discussed. And the other two, of course, are, Listening and speaking, right? The two sides of communication. Which one’s more more important, which one’s more important, listening or speaking, listening, I guess, I think that they’re, they’re both so important. I wouldn’t support a all one way one sided decision like I don’t want you to be like well I’ll be the listener for this entire hour because I want you to be able to communicate what you need and what you want But I also don’t want you to be in the speaker for too long because then you’re not listening So we definitely need a balance here, but I would go for listener is more important Okay, trick question.

I do apologize. It’s a trick question. They’re absolutely equally important. Most, most often people will say speaking or at least subconsciously. They’ll want speaking. I don’t remember who the presenter was, but I was listening to a webinar and he he speaks regularly and he has Ted Talks and he says the Ted Talk that he gave on speaking had about 3 million views.

The Ted Talk that he gave on listening had 300, 000. That says a lot about our society. Okay. And that desire to get my opinion, my voice being heard. It’s all about me, as opposed to being attentive to the other. And they are equally important, perhaps even like you’re saying, we need to put more emphasis on the listening because we do it less often.

Because we are listening. We naturally are pulled to speak more than we listen. So, we need to learn how to listen more than we need to learn how to speak. But, that being said, if you really know how to speak, what you need and need to do. You know, the way that you communicate certain things, you can really get far, right?

Like, absolutely. Speaking levels are important. Absolutely. Speaking could be used negatively or positively, like you could use your speaking for blame and shame and, putting the other person down and that’s not going to serve you or the other person is not going to get you anywhere very, very quickly, right?

But if, if you’re able to speak. Speak what you need and what you want, and, you know, communicate some options of what you think, like you were giving before an option an example, which is really good. So we need to be able to find that, the balance within all of it. Absolutely.

Absolutely. They, they do need to find a balance. So let’s give a, a bit of a sense both on the listening and on the speaking side of what this means. Right? So listening is not just hearing the words. This is what we call active listening. Not just hearing the words, but understanding them. Okay. Yeah, I’m actually understanding them.

Listening is also going beyond the words, reading between the lines, reading the body language, really trying to get a sense of what’s the emotion underneath those words, right? What is the My spouse saying to me, okay, I can vent. My husband knows this very well. I can vent about my day and go on and on and on and repeat the same thing that happened on and on and on and on.

And he’s, he’s relatively well trained. I’m so grateful. And he knows already for the most part, not to step in and give his opinion, but to then stop and say, you sound really frustrated and that’s it. That’s all I needed. Okay. So he’s listened. He has listened and now he’s speaking in response and he’s not speaking.

Well, I think you should do this He’s not giving his opinion. He hasn’t turned it to himself He’s speaking words of support speaking words of identification and the other speaking he might be doing is questions. So questions of Clarification if you really didn’t understand something or questions of curiosity. And questions of curiosity are the most beautiful if we’re not talking about a challenging situation We’re just trying to to reconnect Right?

Sometimes just you’re so busy with life that you forget to connect. An invested conversation can really just be a moment of reconnecting, but it’s so awkward because we haven’t really spoken for so long. Okay. Questions of curiosity. Sit in a place of curiosity. Imagine you’re on a first date and don’t know anything about this person.

They tell you a story. Oh, that’s so interesting. What else happened there? Can you tell me more about this point? How did you feel when that happened? Those are questions of curiosity. It’s awkward. It is. The first few times, it’s awkward. I’m not arguing. It sounds ridiculous. Absolutely. Does it work? Yes.

After the first few times, is it not as awkward? Absolutely. Yeah. Again, it’s a muscle. We’re all, we’re all strengthening muscles around here. I love it. I love it that, you know, for me, active listening, means not coming up with what you’re going to say next, right? Like if you’re listening, your brain is automatically thinking of what I need to say, right?

And what if we weren’t? What if you were just listening to listen, to notice, to understand? And, and that’s really what, what you’re saying here is just be present. Absolutely. Just be. Just sit there, just be focused on actually hearing what’s being said, even, even if there’s nothing being said, even if there’s silence, just sit there with the other person, be present with the other person and not like you said, like our brains going, Oh, how do I respond to this?

Oh, wait, but you’re ready to get those words out. If you absolutely have something you have to say, bring a pen and paper, write down notes. When that person’s finished speaking, then you haven’t forgotten what you want to say. It’s still there. You can say it when the other person’s finished. That’s very important.

We’re always trying to interrupt the other person. No. Active listening is waiting until the other person is finished speaking. Completely finished speaking. And then there’s a pause. Take a deep breath. and now respond in a supportive way in a curious way, right? And now you respond. That’s when talking comes into place.

They don’t happen at the same time. It doesn’t work.

You’re saying the pause. And if there’s nothing to say, don’t say, and just be. And that there it is again, that resistance of like, what do you mean? We don’t know how to be in quiet. We don’t know how to deal with non. verbal, you know, speaking, there is something really awkward about that silence that we’re not used to anymore. With all the distractions and all the devices and all the things that I even had a teacher who said that the cereal box Is the thing that is most read in the entire world because you’re sitting down with your cereal and what are you going to do?

There’s quiet, there’s silence, nobody’s talking, everybody is just chewing. So what do you do? You read it over and over again, breakfast of champions and it has whatever, 17 different vitamins and minerals and you know, and your brain is just constantly looking for what to look at and constantly looking for what to read and constantly looking for how to quiet the noise that is not there.

Right? There is a silence that is so loud that your brain is afraid of what it’s going to fill up with. Like, what is going to allow into that space that you’ve created? And one of the first things I ever had to learn, you know, as a, as a late teenager, early, you know, early adult is to be with that silence.

And once you’re, once you’re there, once you become comfortable, Oh, life is so different, right? It’s so, it’s a different existence, but I remember those early days and the fear. Of being in silence. There’s fear. There’s embarrassment. There’s guilt. There’s nervousness. So many emotions that come along with that silence.

So funny. This is a topic that that keeps coming up over the past few weeks. I feel like my next webinar is on appreciating the silence or keeping the science. I don’t know. I have to figure it out. But this this is a topic that is ever present and It is really terrifying for a lot of people and it can be in marriage.

It can be in parenting. It can be in the business world. I have business clients who are working on their leadership skills and silence in the, in the boardroom. Silence in the meeting room is such a challenge for them. Let’s just talk about silence in a sales conversation, right? Say the price and be quiet, right?

That’s what they tell you. That, that is. The rule just like, and you want to say why it’s that price and you want to explain what the value is and you want to go into detail about, and you just have to be quiet and let them give you what comes up for that now I don’t even have to do that because my people already know the price when they come into the sales conversation.

So it’s not a big deal, but. It is one of those things that really is very, very hard for people. And I love that we got into this total tangent. Sorry guys, we’re going to get back on track, but it’s, it’s something that it’s important also silence and marriage, silence and conversation. It’s critical. So tangents that relate it exactly.

And you know what? I think it ties up to happiness because when you know how to be in a pause, when you know how to deal with the silence, when you, when you’re not afraid of it, there is a lot of happiness that can be found there. Because it creates space for reinvention, it creates space for forgiveness, it creates space for ingenuity, like, you know, just being funny.

I know that, you know, my husband is hysterical, and when I finally be quiet and listen, I crack up. I have such a good time with him because I finally let the other person be who they are. Very difficult, but very fun to do. So definitely, if you want to relate it back to Purim also, which is upon us and Chodesh Atar, we’re talking about passive and active and very often we term people introverts and extroverts as, positive or negative qualities, which they obviously aren’t.

Every quality has its positives and negatives, but there’s, there’s passive happiness and active happiness. There are people who like to be the life of the party and through being active, that’s how they, they feel enlightened as how they feel happy. There are people who like to. Watch who like to be on the side and watch and they’re sitting in their own quiet, but appreciating the other for them.

That’s their happiness. There’s no right or wrong about either so if we go back to Purim, right, are you the person who likes to put on the ridiculous costume and parade around the streets? Or are you the person who likes to sit in the corner and watch all the ridiculous costumes?

And they’re both right, and they both create a sense of happiness. Right. I think just going back to the main thing that you said is get to know yourself and let yourself be yourself, right? Stop judging, stop comparing, stop trying to be who you’re not. That’s going to be one of the things that’s going to bring the most happiness, right?

It’s just so freeing, so freeing to not have to be anyone else, right? And now we’re going all the way back to the beginning of a conversation. What do I do? And that’s what I do. I take women and young adults, teenagers, and help them find that place of confidence and that place of security with who they are and ability to choose, to recognize, to be self aware enough to choose what they want to do and implement those choices.

And that brings joy. That ultimately brings joy. Wow, we tied it all together. Woo! We did it! You guys, if you are listening, give us a very nice applaud. Little emoji, cause that was amazing. This was such a fun conversation. I had a great time. Thanks for joining. Thank you so much for having me. I, the truth is I want to invite your listeners to join my WhatsApp group.

Anyone who, anything resonated with them today. And so I believe your, your work team behind there has put my, the link to my WhatsApp group into the notes or comments and, and listeners, you’re more than welcome to join the WhatsApp group. I talk about the tools that we’ve spoken about today and so much more.

You can learn how to become happy with yourself, self care, positive habits, et cetera. It’s all there. Okay. And any of your listeners who want to join by Purim, we’ll leave Purim as the happy place. Any of your listeners who want to join by Purim, I’m happy to give them a complimentary conversation as well.

Guys, take her up on it. A free conversation is always worth it. I love it. I absolutely love it. And thank you so much for being with me. You know, some of my guests, I handpick, this is one of them and I’m so happy I did cause it was such a success. So thank God. Thank God. I’m so happy. And for you listeners, thank you so much for being with us.

Make sure you come back next week for more amazing episodes and don’t forget to be connected for real. Thanks so much, Hannah. Take care. Thanks a lot. And that’s it! Thank you for listening to the very end. I would love if you can leave a review and subscribe to the podcast. Those are things that tell the algorithm this is a good podcast and make sure to suggest it to others. Wouldn’t it be amazing if more people became more connected for real? And now take a moment and think of someone who might benefit from this episode.

Can you share it with them? I am Robinson Bat chen Grossman from connectedforreal. com. Thank you so much for listening and don’t forget you can be connected for real.